Navigating the Literary Agent Landscape with Leslie Zampetti of Open Book Literary (encore addition!)

In this encore episode of "Writers with Wrinkles," hosts Beth McMullen and Lisa Schmid talk to Leslie Zampetti, a seasoned literary agent and founder of Open Book Literary. Leslie shares her unique perspectives on the publishing industry, emphasizing underrepresented voices and providing invaluable tips for aspiring authors. Dive into an discussion on querying, submission strategies, and the post-COVID publishing landscape.

Key Takeaways:
- Importance of professionalism and research in querying
- Impact of COVID on the publishing industry and how it's adapting
- Tips for writers to effectively navigate the agent querying process
- Understanding the dynamics between authors, agents, and editors
- Current trends and demands in various literary genres

Mentioned Resources:
- Open Book Literary Agency
- Leslie Zampetti's submission guidelines

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Transcript

Beth McMullen: 0:30

Hi everyone, welcome to Writers with Wrinkles. I'm Beth McMullen. Today we're revisiting our discussion with literary agent Leslie Zampetti who, since the last time we spoke, has taken a bold step forward and founded Open Book Literary, an agency committed to bringing underrepresented voices to publishing, especially those voices centering disability, poverty, women, neurodivergence, and Judaism, islam and non-Western religions. Overall, leslie seeks books with a strong commercial premise, distinct prose and multiple layers of meaning that keep you thinking long after you finish the story. Think of a calm sea. It's cool and inviting, but deeper than you expect. If this is you, I'll drop the link to the submissions page in the podcast notes and now on to the episode. Welcome back, friends. Thank you for joining us for episode 16 of Writers with Wrinkles. Today we are excited to welcome literary agent Leslie Zampetti to the podcast.

Beth McMullen: 1:39

Leslie joined Odom Media Management in 2022. Previously, she was an agent with Dunham Literary and an intern with the Bent Agency. A former librarian with over 20 years experience in special public and school libraries, leslie has catalogued rocket launch videos and Lego rocket ship models, presented SEC documents and story times and negotiated with organizations from LexisNexis to the PTA. Her experience as a librarian has given her a distinct perspective on publishing and readers, a writer herself, leslie is very familiar with querying from both sides of the desk. Leslie is also Lisa's agent, so thank you so much for joining us, leslie. Yay, oh, thank you both for inviting me.

Leslie Zampetti: 2:24

I was so pleased. When Lisa reached out it was like yay.

Beth McMullen: 2:28

People get so excited to hear from agents. I think it's like a highlight for aspiring writers out there. I know that we've gotten tons of questions for you already through Twitter, so I know that the audience is going to be very excited to hear from you as well.

Leslie Zampetti: 2:44

Well, that's always great to know, but the first thing I'll say before we get into all the questions, is writers should really remember that the perspective is always that oh, I wasn't the agent who loved me. And they're the ones who are the gatekeeper and they're the ones with the power. And the reality is you, as the writers, are the ones with the power because if you are not approaching us with your work, we have nobody to represent. Editors have nobody to edit and no books get made. So keep it in mind.

Lisa Schmid: 3:14

This is why I love you honestly. I mean, I just and I have to. I want to tell this quick story just because I'm sure you don't remember it. You might remember it. But Leslie did pull me out of her slash pile. So for everyone out there who thinks, oh you know, you have to go through Twitter party or pitch party or referral or conference, I mean it does happen just from the slash pile.

Lisa Schmid: 3:37

And I had queried Leslie with my chapter book Bumble and Beans and there was only there's only a handful of agents out there, that query chapter that take chapter book submissions or queries, and so I can't remember. But I stumbled upon Dunham I don't know how I must have researched it and found it and right away on the homepage I saw that you guys had wrapped Bad Kitty, and so I always look for signs, and the first, the title of my chapter, my first chapter in Bumble and Beans was Bad Kitty. Until we cut it, or I should say until you made me cut it I was like, oh, it's a sign, this is going to be, I'm going to get signed here. And so when you called and we had the call, I rambled about that for like the first 30, 40 seconds and I remember you looking at me like what is she talking about? And I'm like stop talking, stop talking, stop talking.

Leslie Zampetti: 4:40

It is, you know. I'm glad that you brought it up, though, because so many people are like if I don't get this Twitter pitch contest, if I don't get PD party, if I don't get this award, all of my clients have come from my slush pile. I mean, that's where we find things, because that's what we have a chance to really engage with, and one of the things that I would like folks to remember is Twitter pitch contests are wonderful for making people aware of your work and getting extra attention, but there's a big valley between you know what you can do with a pitch and actually executing a book, and some people are really great at both. Some people are good at one or the other and you know, just because you don't feel you're very effective at Twitter pitching doesn't mean someone's not going to want to sign you, because those are very different skills and obviously, in the state age, to be an author like you, lisa, who has skills for both, is wonderful, but I don't think editors necessarily and agents expect that from everybody.

Leslie Zampetti: 5:38

What they're really looking for is the story, and I can't tell you how many times I've been like oh, this looks so great, this is a great tip, whether it's Twitter or, you know, doing pitches at conferences, and then I get, you know, the sample or the whole manuscript and I'm like, oh, this is not quite what I thought it would be, I'm not really the right person for this. And again, that's not to say that when you get rejected, that that's, you know. Oh, my God, this is bad. You know, usually it's more subjective than that. It's that this agent is not the right agent for this project or this editor is not the right editor for the story, and it's less about the actual quality and sometimes it just means, you know, we rush into things. I've done that myself.

Leslie Zampetti: 6:17

So I pitched Rachel or the prospect agency at a New Jersey SCB UI conference. You know, as a writer, as a fellow agent, I was not an agent yet and I realized, when she just looked sort of that you know, not to that per se, but concern really is what the word for it that she did not rep. When I was pitching her, I thought I had done my research. Well, obviously I had missed something or I was so eager in another way that I hadn't, and she was extremely gracious. She told me what I could do to improve my pitch. You know what would help, but the reality was is I wasted both of our times, and it wasn't so much that my work was bad, just was not going to be something she represented, and I was lucky to have a good outcome from that. So it's important to keep that in mind.

Beth McMullen: 7:04

I feel like so many people are coming to the experience. You don't. It's not the kind of experience that you can parallel to something else, so you have no idea, other than what you read or heard, how it's supposed to go and what's going to happen. So I think it's anxiety provoking for lots of people, for lots of reasons.

Leslie Zampetti: 7:24

Oh, no, definitely, and one of the things I would say exactly is that everybody has different levels of experience, and you know, a lot of people seem to feel like, well, because of the state of the age of social media, all this information is out there. How can you possibly not know it? Well, the reality is, people still don't necessarily know it. It depends on how you're involved you are with social media. It depends on what kind of resources you have. You know, a lot of people live in areas where their internet access isn't great, and when they're using it, they need to use it for their business or for family reasons, and not necessarily, you know, looking up what the right way to query is, or what you should have ready for a pitch contest or whatever, and so I think it's valuable to have as much information as you can. But to understand it's like anything else in life Anytime you're querying, people make mistakes and you know.

Leslie Zampetti: 8:14

Again, it comes back to that advice of you're hiring the agent. Do you want someone who is maybe a little harsher or maybe a little more exacting, or do you want someone to work with who says, yeah, we all make mistakes? Different people are motivated in different ways. I've had people tell me well, I don't want an agent that forgives my typos, because does that mean they're going to forgive my typos and what they send to editors? I mean that's a valid suggestion. I personally would like to think not, since I will forgive your typos and your queries to me, but I don't do that when I'm setting submissions.

Beth McMullen: 8:46

Right, there are different standards for different things. Yeah, like I said before, we got lots of questions for you, so we're going to jump in to the first one, which I thought was really interesting. So last year the public to the industry was still recovering from COVID and the pandemic and the shutdown and everything was moving slowly. Do you see things shifting back to normal? Is there a new normal? How do you feel like this is all playing out?

Leslie Zampetti: 9:15

It's like everything post COVID, or are we even post COVID? It's really more being endemic, like flu, as opposed to being pandemic, and yes, it is a new normal, because it is what we're dealing with. I would say I've seen things changing, but maybe not as quickly or thoroughly as people would like. Things are still moving very slowly in publishing and that's for a lot of reasons. There was definitely a backlog of submissions. There is just the mountain, for agents at least, of queries, and I'm sure there's also a mountain of submissions for editors.

Leslie Zampetti: 9:48

I wrote this book during the pandemic or I was holding on to this because it was the pandemic and I knew things weren't going to happen, and so we're seeing a lot of that. I advised another of my clients not you, lisa that no, we were not going to submit things immediately in January because there had been a significant slowdown from November through December, which, you know, publishing always takes a break around the holidays, but it's not usually a two month slowdown and, like anything in life, there's always two sides to every story. We had a publishing, you know, a slowdown overall for many reasons, one of which was the strike at Harper Collins, but I sold double the books last year that I did the year before. So certainly I was seeing improvements in responses and, you know, in editors capacity to come back. I think a lot of it is going to depend on the publishers themselves, the companies, and you know, are they making sure that they have enough staff to really handle the workload that's coming in?

Lisa Schmid: 10:43

Well, and that kind of leads into our next question, because I do want to talk about your approach to submissions, which I think you know. I talk about it a lot with other writers who are on submission and I feel like you have a really unique approach and it served me really well. So thank you, because I. So let's talk about your approach. So, first of all, I know you're an editorial agent, but you can answer that, oh well, I just did so, tell us about your approach to submissions.

Leslie Zampetti: 11:16

So, as you mentioned, I am an editorial agent. So my first step with a client whether they're you know someone who's been with me for quite a while or a new client is to make sure that whatever work we're producing is in shape to go out. So again, we sort of avoid that. Yes, we're so eager to go with this that we missed the boat. That's not just saying you don't get advice, that leaves for revision later on. It's just to say that we've hit the point where it's as good as we can make it and it's ready to go. And that could be anything from larger developmental editing, it can be copy editing. Because of my nature I can't help prefer reading. So that's all in there and nothing plus. But in terms of submissions themselves, one of the reasons why I'm really enjoying being at Odom is the philosophy here is really about being more proactive and making those relationships with editors and building interest in a project before sending it, and not just necessarily sending a cold pitch to an editor, much like someone would send a cold query to me unsolicited. It's not that those don't work I have sold books on cold pitch letters that have worked out but I feel it gives the work more opportunity when someone's excited and, you know, really ready to receive it and interested in receiving it. I also feel it's very important to create a submission that's well rounded, much like you should do if you're querying agents, instead of just. This is my dream of who I want to work with. Maybe include some people who, for whatever reason, are sort of out of that zone, because sometimes that's who really surprises you.

Leslie Zampetti: 12:46

And the last thing is, I always like to sort of account for timing. One of the things that is very frustrating in this business is that you can do everything right and still have something the wrong, and that is timing. For a lot of people, that timing was, you know, covid in 2020. There were a lot of submissions, there were a lot of books that just did not get the attention they deserve because nobody could really cope with anything. There were a lot of topics in the succeeding months and you know at this point, years where everybody was looking for things that were more uplifting, more hopeful. So if you were dealing with really serious topics, even in a hopeful way, it's less likely that editors and agents were going to say, yes, I'm reaching for that first in my submission file. You know, even if it's excellent. People really needed more of a distraction.

Lisa Schmid: 13:32

I just I found that just your whole approach of pitching the editor and having that relationship and knowing that my book wasn't just going into basically a slush pile at their desk and so, and then also, just on a side note, I just, you know I always love and this is just me raving about you is you taking the time to like work with me and I know you do this with all your clients and talking us through the process and picking up the phone when you feel the anxiety level ratcheting it up?

Leslie Zampetti: 14:08

Hey, you're making me blush, you know, I love you.

Leslie Zampetti: 14:12

But that's also part of the nature of publishing is it is sort of an arcane industry and if you don't have that information, how can you make a good decision? You know. And going back to the submission process, I think one of the things that we have this idea is that there's one right editor, or you know ideally what happens. You know if you're lucky enough and you have competing editors who want your work. You know how are you making those choices and fight what pub lunch and others would want us to think. You know this end all and be all is not necessarily the size of the advance. I mean, that's just one criterion in the decision making process.

Beth McMullen: 14:44

Yeah, it's. I feel like in some regards, a good agent is also part therapist.

Leslie Zampetti: 14:50

They are. Yeah, I mean it's definitely a middleman position. I mean it's negotiating both on behalf of your author and, you know, with your author and balancing that relationship between the author and the editor. And that's something that is important because you want that to be a strong relationship, and so sometimes there needs to be a little hand holding at both sides to make that relationship go smoothly.

Lisa Schmid: 15:11

I would have definitely blown up the deals if I had had any say in it, because I just wanted like answers and I want to. Am like oh my god, they haven't responded in this amount of time. They're done. They're done. Leslie's like whoa, settle down.

Beth McMullen: 15:27

Yeah, how many times have I told Lisa to just take a deep breath. Just take a deep breath, just breathe and don't say or do anything.

Leslie Zampetti: 15:36

Well, I feel like everybody in publishing has main character syndrome in which we're all like wait a minute, I do the same thing.

Leslie Zampetti: 15:42

You know I'll send a pitch out. Or you know, submit it out and be like, well, I haven't heard from them. And then when I actually look at the email I sent and I look at the date I sent that, I'm like, oh, that was hours, not days. Okay, I need to take a breath. That's why I personally feel, as an agent, it is vital that I respond to the queries I get, even if it is a form rejection, so that there is some feedback and there is some sort of interaction there, as opposed to just well, let this be in the hole. I have no idea if she saw it. It says on the website if you don't hear back in three months, it's the past. But sometimes you can't get to something in three months that you're doing your best.

Beth McMullen: 16:21

I feel like that is something I would like the publishers to do better and I think it is absolutely within their grasp to do better. For example, my first kid series, mrs Smith's Spice School for Girls, went out on submission, got picked up by Aladdin. The first book in the three part series was actually out and my agent got a reply from somebody who had received it as a submission saying, oh, this sounds interesting. I mean, it had been 18 months maybe. Yeah, and you know my agent had some words for her. But it's like that just makes you look bad, it makes you look unprofessional, it makes you look disengaged and I hope that publishers I know that it has been an insane couple of years and they've been overwhelmed and they're understaffed and they're overworked and I appreciate all of those things but there has to be a system so that the writers who are sitting out there and the agents who are querying on their behalf get some response.

Lisa Schmid: 17:24

Yeah.

Beth McMullen: 17:24

Even if it is a form, we don't want this or hey, we're keeping it, but it might take us another five months. So please be patient If you can be patient. If you can't, we totally understand. Just because I mean, it's symbiotic right. They exist because of us and we exist because of them, and there has to be some sort of middle ground where we're meeting.

Leslie Zampetti: 17:45

Exactly. They're not writing the books themselves, except in certain cases for IP, and so they do need us. I try to manage expectations on the front end, so much like developing those relationships with the editors. I also try to make sure that you know whether I know them or it's gone out, as you know, more of a cold pitch. I have included something to the effect of can you confirm receipt? If this isn't for you, I'd love to hear that. I make sure that when I have calls, I let editors know that I'm perfectly fine with you responding to me the way I respond to my queries, which is not for me.

Leslie Zampetti: 18:22

I think some of this is also changing sort of mores in the publishing world, because the expectation for editors for a long time was that if you were sending a submission, that when they sent a rejection they would send it with substantial, significant feedback, and then you would find people hanging on to things, because sometimes you just unfortunately don't have that, and then it gets longer and longer, and then you end up in the situation that you described, where someone knows they need to get back to you, but they just can't because now it's too awkward.

Leslie Zampetti: 18:53

So now what do they do? So I think there needs to be a conversation and in some instances I am involved with this from ALA, the Association of American Literary Agents, about, you know, letting editors know that any reply is better than no reply, and it's okay If you have feedback, great, if it's even a line or two, that's wonderful. But if you don't, sometimes you don't, and that's okay too. At least it lets us know where we are with the submission. I will say though, as an aside sometimes it's really helpful for writers, because if you get a no response from an editor, you can generally pitch another editor at that imprint, whereas many imprints have rules that a pass from one is a pass for all, and so sometimes it's helpful if you haven't actually had a direct reply of no. Thank you.

Beth McMullen: 19:42

That's a really good point. That's the silver lining of them ignoring you.

Leslie Zampetti: 19:46

It is a silver lining. So my personal favorite is when I have an editor who replies with this isn't for me, but could you try selling so or you might try this person here. Then that's the gold lining because you're like great, I'll be you, I know who to go to, and then you have a referral to that editor. I'm sure again writers like that when they're querying agents. I make sure folks know that I share my queries with the folks in my other agencies. Occasionally I refer them to agents outside my agency if I know someone who's really looking for something and I think that's going to be a good fit for them. That happens more for things that I'm not representing, that's for things that I do.

Beth McMullen: 20:26

So kind of on the tail of that, down to kind of the micro level, what are things that writers who are preparing to query should do, shouldn't do? What are red flags for you? What are the glaring things that make you go? Nope, just kind of that list of do's and don'ts for querying.

Leslie Zampetti: 20:47

Well, for me, the biggest don't is just being unprofessional, whether it's being rude or snarky. And I mean a lot of times we hear you should try to have a voice in your queries and their book happens to have a sarcastic voice, so they think this is okay in the query and it's like you don't know who's reading that or interpreting that on the other end, and sometimes things don't come across in the email or you know query manager form. So it's better just to be plain and professional. My personal pet peeve is people who query me as if there was dipping it off their iPhone and there's literally no name involved. There's no salutation. It's not about how they're addressing me, it's well. I don't know how to address that at this point.

Beth McMullen: 21:29

I can't believe someone would do that. That like gives me heart complications.

Leslie Zampetti: 21:33

I have had queries that read like a text and it's like this is not enough information about your book. Again, people don't have to disclose facets of their identity they're not comfortable with, especially in a cold query. But we do need to know how to address you when we respond. I mean, people get very agitated by Dear Writer, but sometimes it's Dear Writer because there's no information as to who this person might be in any way, shape or form. Even initials, Initials, are fine. At least that's something to you.

Beth McMullen: 22:04

You know that feels like the low hanging fruit of a query.

Leslie Zampetti: 22:08

Yeah, it really is.

Leslie Zampetti: 22:09

It's a name on it. This gives people an idea of the kinds of things that come into us, just like people who are rude or dismissive of the agent from the beginning and it's like, well then, why are you new querying me? If you think agents in general and me in particular are terrible, like this is not going to want me to work with you. I would also say a sense that somebody querying hasn't done even basic research about an agent. If you are submitting something that someone has specifically not asked to see on their website or manuscript list, you know, for me that's a red flag because it means you're either not doing your research at all or you're choosing to ignore what I've specifically asked not to see. And that's not to say that we always know what we want and what we don't want. If you would ask me, amaya, if it's for you know certain types of novels, I would say no.

Leslie Zampetti: 23:00

An example comes to mind I usually say I'm not a fit for World War II novels. However, somebody did query me with one that was set in the Pacific Theater, particularly on Howland Island, years ago, and that was very interesting. That was something I would want to take a look at. But you know people who just sort of are like well, I'm sending you something that is not you know, that is not generally known, or they're sending you something that you specifically said. I know a lot of agents have trigger warnings for, for example, violence against women. That feels like a deliberate insult.

Lisa Schmid: 23:31

I know I think what and this is kind of off topic, but still on topic I know that a lot of times in the writing community people they feel like Twitter is where they can go to talk about what's happening. And if you're in the querying trenches or you're on submission talking about that, what you know, if there's some negative experience that's happened, like why isn't this agent getting back to me? You know, whatever the case may be, twitter is not the area to voice that, because you know, a lot of times agents are and editors are looking at your social media to see what kind of a person that you are and if you're tweeting complaints or being negative or do you look at that, is that something that you look at?

Leslie Zampetti: 24:14

I look at how they interact with people on Twitter and it's less about complaining. I mean, I think definitely there are writers who have had experiences where they deserve to complain about an agent or not, but I think there's a way at handling it again professionally. And handling it, you know, not professionally. If someone is dealing with a disappointment and it looks like they're taking it well and or you know they're responding well, that says a lot about them as a person and their character. If somebody is just blaming somebody for something that may not be under their control, you know, my question is not only how are you going to treat me, but then, when I'm sending you on to editors, how are you going to treat that editor? Because I think one thing that a lot of clients forget is that it's not just for any individual client, it's for all our clients.

Lisa Schmid: 24:57

So I'm going to ask this is the big bonus question that everyone always wants to know is what is at the top of your MSWL as your manuscript wishlist? Also, tell us what you don't want, because that's always just as important, and I, you know, encourage people to go look at your website and do their research as they would with any agent, as you've been talking about. But let's talk about what you're really looking for right now.

Leslie Zampetti: 25:21

The easy thing is always the negative. What do I want? I would say being at Odom makes it easier, because not only can you look at the website to see what I'm asking for, but you can also see who my current clients are and a little information about them and what they're working on and any titles that are coming out. We've covered cover copy. So one of the things that people often forget is you know you often balance your list so that, for example, you know you don't have too many picture book clients competing amongst each other. I mean, it's hard enough competing against every other agent's clients. You don't want your own clients necessarily competing for the same editorial attention.

Leslie Zampetti: 25:56

I would say in general, again, I'm not looking for Western centered you know, historical fiction or historical fiction from eras that have really been recovered, especially recently. I'm looking for a fresher perspectives on that. I'm always looking for underrepresented voices, and that can be underrepresented in terms of being BIPOC. It can be in terms of your religion, it can be. One thing I am specifically focusing on is work by disabled creators. That's a voice we often forget about and a very valuable one, and it's a very different perspective and I think it's something we need to remember, particularly after the pandemic, and how really as a society we did not respond well to people who have been completely shut out from participation in life because we can't care for each other. I also look for underrepresented voices in terms of socioeconomic class, which is something that publishing in general sometimes has trouble with.

Leslie Zampetti: 26:53

Having been a very privileged industry for so long and a very Northeast, very urban centric industry for so long, I tend to look for things that are more on the literary end of the spectrum. For me, the sweet spot is really that perfect oval in the middle of the Venn Diagram where it has appeal to both parents and teachers. It has appeal to kids. It's got a very commercial feeling premise, maybe with very literary writing and voice, like many agents' voices going to be paramount and something that really draws me. One of the projects that was recently announced and will be overseas or sold in the UK and will be announced here. It was a very commercial-like thriller premise, but the voice was really appealing and it was something I couldn't put down. That, I think, also lends itself to what I'm looking for, which is always mysteries, both middle grade YA and also for adults. I mean, I do have adult clients as well, for both upmarket historical fiction, romance and mysteries.

Lisa Schmid: 27:49

There was a lot of interest in getting your opinion on writing picture books, like what is the deal with writing picture books? Are they in, they out? Are people buying them, are they not?

Leslie Zampetti: 27:59

I tell people that, again, it's like any trend what goes around comes around and it really depends on the execution. You know, there are people I can't imagine writing in rhyme and there are people I can't imagine writing in straight prose. It really depends on what the concept is and how you're executing it and why it works. I will say that there are lots of editors who like books that rhyme. They just require that the rhyme and the rhythm be spot on and really well executed for it to work. That, to me, is really the be all and end all is do you have an idea? Have you executed it in the best way possible? And, you know, is it something that I go, you know will appeal to others?

Leslie Zampetti: 28:38

For me, one thing that I'm always thinking of is not just is it going to appeal to editors, but I really think of it in terms of the actual reader. Is this a topic children will want to read? And is it a topic that children do read, as opposed to adults think children will want to read it? You know it's much like voice. You know I talk a lot about the three qualities of voice and the first voice for writing for children is the voice that adults think kids sound like and that's like a no-go, you know, unless you happen to be writing for very educational or very prescriptive market, I mean, that's just not what anyone's going to really want.

Leslie Zampetti: 29:11

But there is a market then oh yeah, okay, there still is. I mean, we just look at what's being published. There are plenty of books that are coming out in rod.

Beth McMullen: 29:19

I love rhyming picture books.

Leslie Zampetti: 29:22

I love to read them when my kids were little.

Beth McMullen: 29:24

I always wanted to read those because they're just fun to read. They kind of just roll they are very musical.

Leslie Zampetti: 29:30

There's a different well, and there's a different component to that that I think a lot of people also forget when they're especially when they're first starting out with picture books, which is that picture books are intended to be read aloud. They are not being read by an emerging reader, they're being read by an older child or an adult, and so what you can do with them is much more advanced than a lot of people think. And I think where people get trapped is that, yeah, brian is a wonderful read aloud, but you don't necessarily want a sing song quality. You need to be able to read it aloud, and I have it. Like you said, there's a musicality and the rhythm and the structure of it that you know sort of all builds upon each other.

Beth McMullen: 30:08

That is great. Well, we have kept you way over the amount of time that we sent you. We would keep you so. Thank you so so much for being here and for sharing your insights. I know our listeners will get a lot out of this, Thank you for having me.

Leslie Zampetti: 30:23

I'm really.

Beth McMullen: 30:24

it was really flattering to be invited and I feel like most of my questions have been equivocations and answering some but Now this is just more insight that people out there who are thinking about starting to careery or trying to get an agent. This is all really good for them to hear, just because it kind of sets you a little bit more at ease and you can be a little more relaxed with the process, kind of have an idea of what's coming, something happens, you won't panic. So all very, I think, really important stuff to get out there.

Leslie Zampetti: 30:56

When we're querying, it feels like the most important thing in the world. It feels like life will end if the result is not what we desire. But I just keep in mind, just like when I pitch editors, this is not brain surgery, it is not rocket science. Nobody is dying at the end of this, hopefully, and more importantly, I keep in mind the positive of which is that when these wonderful books come to fruition, they really help the readers, and there are readers who, whether it's simply providing entertainment in a quiet moment or it is something that has a much larger impact on their life emotionally. That's the best part about our job is it really does have impact on those kids and even on adult readers as well.

Beth McMullen: 31:34

That is the perfect note to end on. So thank you again, leslie. We totally appreciate you being here. Well, thank you both.