Encore episode! Literary agent and author Eric Smith on why horror is having a moment, what is selling in YA right now and how to get noticed in a crowded field

Join us as we delve into the dynamic world of Young Adult (YA) publishing with literary agent and author, Eric Smith. In this must-listen for aspiring authors and YA enthusiasts, Eric sheds light on why horror is making a big comeback and what genres are currently dominating the YA scene. Whether you're grappling with how to make your manuscript stand out or seeking insights into the latest market trends, this episode is a treasure trove of advice.

Dive into topics like crafting compelling YA romcoms, navigating the crowded YA market, and understanding what literary agents look for in new submissions. Eric also shares his unique perspective on balancing heartfelt storytelling with market demands, offering invaluable tips for budding authors. Plus, get a sneak peek into his upcoming YA romcom, "With or Without You," set against the backdrop of a family food truck rivalry and reality TV drama.

Key takeaways include:
- The resurgence of horror in YA literature.
- Strategies for making your YA manuscript stand out.
- The importance of character development and voice in storytelling.
- Insights into the current trends and future directions of the YA market.

Perfect for writers, literary agents, YA fans, and anyone curious about the behind-the-scenes of the book industry. Don't miss Eric Smith's expert guidance on how to navigate the ever-evolving landscape of YA fiction.

Chapter Breakdown

1. **Introduction to Eric Smith and YA Trends** (Start - 00:45)
   - A warm introduction to the episode and a brief overview of Eric Smith's background in the YA publishing industry.

2. **The Rise of Horror in YA Literature** (00:45 - 01:40)
   - Eric discusses the increasing popularity of horror in young adult fiction and its appeal to today's readers.

3. **Current State of the YA Market** (01:40 - 02:31)
   - An exploration of what's selling in the YA market and how authors can stand out in a crowded field.

4. **Behind 'With or Without You': A YA Romcom** (02:31 - 03:47)
   - Eric shares insights into his upcoming YA romcom, including its unique premise and the inspiration behind it.

5. **Crafting Stories That Resonate: Tips for Aspiring Authors** (03:47 - 04:26)
   - Practical advice for writers on creating narratives that captivate both readers and agents.

6. **Balancing Heart and Market Demands** (04:26 - 05:15)
   - Discussion on how to blend heartfelt storytelling with the commercial aspects necessary for market success.

7. **Navigating the YA Publishing Landscape** (05:15 - 06:24)
   - Eric provides his perspective on the current challenges and opportunities in YA publishing.

8. **The Agent's View: Selecting and Representing Authors** (06:24 - 07:34)
   - Insights into the decision-making process of a literary agent when considering new clients.

9. **The Power of Character and Voice in YA** (07:34 - 09:10)
   - Emphasizing the importance of developing strong characters and a unique voice in young adult literature.

Transcript

Beth McMullen: 0:30

Hi everyone, welcome to Writers with Wrinkles, the podcast where we go deep into writing and the publishing industry to make your life easier. I'm Beth McMillan. Today we're excited to offer an encore of one of our favorite episodes with literary agent and author Eric Smith. During our conversation, eric talked about why horror is having a moment, what is selling in young adult right now and how to get noticed in a crowded field. We found it incredibly enlightening and we hope you do too. Happy New Year, friends and listeners. And now on to the episode. Hi, friends, today we are thrilled to welcome Eric Smith to the podcast.

Beth McMullen: 1:16

Eric is a literary agent and young adult author from Elizabeth, new Jersey. As an agent with PS Literary, he works on New York Times bestselling and award-winning books. His recent novels include the Yalsa Best Books for Young Readers selection. Don't read the comments from Inkyard Press 2020. You can go your own way also an Inkyard Press book from 21 and the anthologies Battle of the Bands and First Year Orientation, both co-edited with award-winning author Lauren Gabaldi. Last year, abrams published his book Jagged Little Pill, the novel, which was written in collaboration with Alanis Morissette, academy Award winner Diablo Cody and Glenn Ballard, and is an adaption of the Grammy and Tony award-winning musical. He lives in Philadelphia with his wife and son and enjoys video games, pop, punk and crying over every movie. So thank you for joining us, eric. We are so happy to have you here.

Eric Smith: 2:11

No, thank you for having me. This is great.

Lisa Schmid: 2:13

So what jumps out at me in your fabulous bio is that you cry at all the movies. You should know, I too am a crier. I cry at everything. I cry at reels, I cry at commercials, I cry at movies the first note in a musical. When I'm there, I start crying. I don't know what it is. Why are you such a crier? I have a theory why I am a crier. Why are you a crier?

Eric Smith: 2:35

Oh, I don't know, I just get very emotionally invested right away. I think it's because I'm a Scorpio. That is the way of our people. But yeah, I'm the same way with musicals. I remember seeing Dear Evan Hansen for the first time, and when she launches into does anybody have a map? Just right away, tears, I'm like why am I crying? I don't even know what the song is yet. What is happening to me. So yeah, no, I got it.

Beth McMullen: 3:02

I actually cried at the recent Indiana Jones movie, but that was because it was terrible and I was sad. That was different kind of crying, but you know, just had to throw that out there. I was looking at your website and I saw you have a book coming in November of 2023, a YA romcom about a family food truck rivalry called with or without you. Can you give us just a little bit on that before we jump into questions?

Eric Smith: 3:30

Yeah, absolutely so. It's set in South Philadelphia and involves two rival families who have cheese steak trucks on opposite corners of a fictional roundabout in South Philly. But the catch is that the rivalry isn't real. It's been engineered by the families to drive up business and bring attention to them. And the two teenagers who are caught up in the middle of the fake rivalry have very real feelings for each other that they have to hide from the world. And then they have to hide them even more because a reality show decides to make a show about the two food trucks. So it is a book about fake hating instead of fake dating. And what does that do to a relationship when you have to pretend like you hate each other all the time when really you're madly in love?

Lisa Schmid: 4:18

Oh, my God, I love that so much. So what? How did this idea with the food trucks come up? Because that's brilliant.

Eric Smith: 4:25

Yeah, so I like trying to find the drama in everything.

Lisa Schmid: 4:30

So there's a Dollar Tree and a Dollar.

Eric Smith: 4:31

General, right next to each other, not too far away from my house, and I think about it all the time, like, oh, I bet they fight all the time, I bet there's some, they go on paintball trips or something, and of course that doesn't happen. But like what if it does? You know what if? And the cheesesteak rivalry's in Philly are very real, right? So, like I would always look at those trucks and I'd always wonder what those battles were and what was going on inside.

Eric Smith: 4:56

And then my wife is wildly into reality television. She watches a ton of reality TV and over the course of like this pandemic where we've been stuck inside, and you know, 2020, 2021, I was just, I was watching a ton of it with her. I was watching 98 Fiance and then married at Versailles and all these shows, and I don't know, I was like, you know, maybe I need to write a YA novel about reality television because this is what I'm currently absorbing the most of and it just came about. You know, I feel like all my books touch on something I'm very passionate about or I'm consuming a lot of, and that was the kind of result, you know, my love of drama and Philadelphia, mixed with my wife's love of reality TV. There we go.

Lisa Schmid: 5:45

That's like the perfect combination. My husband and I we own a brewery here in Folsom in California, where I live, and I'm always dealing with food trucks, and so I was like oh, what is this? Maybe this will explain why they don't show up. So they must be drama going on behind the scenes that I'm not aware of. Well, that sounds like a fabulous book, and when exactly does that come out?

Eric Smith: 6:12

Comes out November 7th.

Lisa Schmid: 6:14

Okay, and that's available for preorder now. Oh yeah, good.

Beth McMullen: 6:18

You can preorder that. So let's jump into our questions. We're just talking about your YA romcom. This is kind of related to that. So we have been hearing in all the press and the news that the YA market is a pretty tough sell these days. So what changes do you see happening in the market and what genre within YA is positioned to be breaking out or to kind of be the star performer? Is it romcom, is it more fantasy? What are you seeing happening?

Eric Smith: 6:54

That's a great question. I guess my first entry point into that question is that I don't know if I agree with some of my colleagues saying that YA is a hard sell these days. Like if you subscribe to Publishers Marketplace, if you're on the Publishers Weekly Children's Bookshelf, you're seeing book deals happening every single week. There are tons of YA books still selling pretty regularly. I think the trick there, and that what maybe makes people think it's a little bit harder, is that it is something of an oversaturated market. There are a ton of YA novels coming out all the time. The trick is making sure your stands out amongst all of them. It's doing something wildly different while exploring the same tropes that teenagers absolutely adore, and that can be hard. That can be hard to try to flip a trope on its head or dig into something completely different, and no matter how much you read as a writer you can't read everything, it's hard to know whether or not you're doing something that's similar to something that sold that you haven't heard of yet.

Eric Smith: 8:01

So it's not hard, you just need to find a way to stick out and have that.

Eric Smith: 8:05

I guess there's a little element of luck to it where you write that thing that no one has bought yet, that someone is desperately looking for at the right time. There's this publishing alchemy that happens, that you can't really explain, but it's there and it's real. In terms of the stuff that I see breaking out a little bit more, I think the answer is horror in a really big way. My filly accent is going to be horror in a really big way, because every editor I know is looking for it, both in the adults, the YA, the middle grade space readers are really hungry for it. They're hungry for sort of accessible horror novels that aren't gigantic tomes, that are a little bit shorter, that aren't all gore and jump scares but are a little more. I like to think that the best kind of horror novels do this thing, where they make you think about the answers to questions you don't want to ask in the first place and then like, oh, would I make it in that? Probably not, and that's what makes them so scary.

Eric Smith: 9:10

Editors are looking for more of that and I can say right now, like in my agent life, I've sold two horror novels recently and then in the romcom space, which I still think is a sort of a burgeoning market in the YA space I've sold five in the past couple of months. So people are still looking for it. You have to stand out in a big way if it's that contemporary stuff and if you're writing horror, try to be accessible and try not to be gory. Try to make readers ask those questions. Make them good and uncomfortable.

Beth McMullen: 9:41

It's interesting that you have romcom and horror happening at the same time, because they're just really on such opposite ends of the continuum of the types of stories that are being told. It's almost like, ok, I'm going to read a horror and then that was a lot. Now I'm going to go to the romcom so that I can take a deep breath and then I'll go back. It's just funny that those two are kind of rising at the same time.

Eric Smith: 10:03

Yeah, yeah, and it's also the result of me and my agent life I represent a little bit of everything. I read a little bit of everything. I'm looking at my bookshelf and the stuff I have coming out in the next couple of months and one book is a sober dating book. It's nonfiction. It's called Dry Humping. It's the best title.

Lisa Schmid: 10:23

I saw that on your site. Oh, my goodness, I love that title. I wonder if the author thought of the title first and then was like now I got to figure out a story, Maybe.

Eric Smith: 10:34

Maybe, but the author has a podcast all about sober dating. It's a big part of her life. I wouldn't be surprised if she had that title kicking around for a while.

Lisa Schmid: 10:43

And who's the author on that one?

Eric Smith: 10:45

Oh, her name's Tawny Lara. So yeah, I work on nonfiction books like that, I work on memoir and then at the same time I'm working on quirky romcoms and uncomfortable horror novels. That's the fun thing about being an agent you can fiddle around in all your interests.

Beth McMullen: 10:58

Were you an agent or an author first?

Eric Smith: 11:03

Definitely author first. So my first book came out in 2013. Oh my God, it's 10 years old this year. Oh Jesus, ah, ah. And then I became an agent in 2015. But I've been working for publishing for six years. Before I became an agent, I worked at a publishing house.

Lisa Schmid: 11:24

Who'd you work for?

Eric Smith: 11:25

I worked at.

Lisa Schmid: 11:25

Quirk, oh, okay, yeah, so it's a published book and now you're old, so you have books with them as well, right?

Eric Smith: 11:30

Yeah, yeah. So my first book came out with them. It was called the Geeks Guy, good Dating. And then in my agent life I have a whole bundle of books with them a couple of middle grade nonfiction books that that dry humping book I brought up is with them, and an unannounced book I will get to talk about in a couple of weeks.

Lisa Schmid: 11:46

Oh fine, very cool. Well, so let's kind of switch gears to the agent aspect, because this is something and you see people posting on Twitter, especially after they've maybe been had their book requested because it matched a Twitter pitch or something. Oh no, so a lot of times, authors have the experience of being told and agent love their story, their writing is fabulous and yet they're still turned down, which is just devastating to us poor writers. What's the decision making process for you when you're thinking and considering taking on a new client and you've received their work and maybe you're like oh my god, I love this, but for whatever reason, you're like mm, I'm going to have to pass.

Eric Smith: 12:29

Yeah, I mean that one specific bit where it's like something you really love, but you know you won't be able to sell it that's happened a couple of times and I've actually ended up signing those authors for later projects, because when an agent tells you or an editor tells you, like, send me the next thing, I love your writing.

Lisa Schmid: 12:46

They're not lying.

Eric Smith: 12:47

That's true, we do want to see your next thing, and then I've gone on to sign those people.

Eric Smith: 12:52

But the thing that makes me end up passing on something that I really like, usually it comes down to me not knowing how to sell it. Maybe it's doing something very different with the genre and I'm not sure who the editor might be for it. Maybe there's something structurally wrong with it that I know it is the writer's vision to do this unique and clever thing, but I wouldn't know how to sell it. Based on how it's been put together, it's usually more about me than it is about the writing project. It's like I don't know who the editor is that would buy it. I don't know who. I don't know how to change something without compromising that writer's vision for the project. Or had this happen where it's something that I really like and I finally set down to read it? And then I hop on Publisher's Marketplace and I see someone has bought that exact thing, like maybe it's a cocktail book or something in nonfiction that I know someone's not going to buy another one? That usually tends to be what it is.

Lisa Schmid: 13:52

So it's a you, not me thing yeah.

Eric Smith: 13:55

Yeah, I would say so.

Lisa Schmid: 13:57

That's a YA novel in itself, right there. Yeah, it's hard, but I think that's a good answer because I think a lot of times when writers see that, it's disappointing, but knowing that when you say some of your next thing and you mean it and I can imagine, like you said, you've signed other people have you ever passed on something that you've seen gone on and done really well with somebody else?

Eric Smith: 14:24

Yes, I will never name them due to embarrassment, but when my wife and I go in like a Barnes Noble, she basically has to watch me go like just like grown to myself and I like walk by and be like, oh, there's that book that I said no to, that maybe could have been off our mortgage. You know, like that's the stuff that yeah, oh boy.

Eric Smith: 14:45

It always hurts a little bit. But also sometimes when I see that, I'm reminded of that weird publishing alchemy that takes place, where, like I see the editor that bought that book or see the publishing house that took on that book and I'm like, oh, I would have never sent it to that place, like I don't know if I would have done that.

Eric Smith: 15:02

Or I look at the edits that are inside, I'm like oh this isn't what I would have done here, so maybe that book never would have been published. You know, that's very, very visible.

Beth McMullen: 15:11

Yeah, that's an interesting point of view. I also feel like it's good to remind authors that if your end goal is to publish your book with a traditional publishing house, you do have to keep in mind the marketability and where it goes on the shelf. Because I get that you might want to do something really outside the lines, but then you have to really have some driving strategy behind getting it published, Because publishing really does want to put you in a box and that's how they work. You know you need to fit in this space on the shelf, Otherwise we don't know how to sell you. So it's a good reminder Because I know sometimes when you're writing you're just feeling like this is my passion and this is my emotion and this is everything. I'm jumping into this manuscript. But if you really do want to sell it at the end of the day you have to keep that in the back of your head, which is not always that fun, but there is reality.

Eric Smith: 16:09

And also just knowing the rules helps you break them later. Right Like there are certain books that break the rules of the different categories that they're in. But if you're writing it in a way that makes you fit, then there's a place for it.

Beth McMullen: 16:23

Good to keep in mind. So when you are and I am sure you get inundated with submissions because we hear that from agents all the time that they are just their inboxes are overflowing. So when you're combing through all of this stuff, what? Even a recent example of something that made you go oh, this is brilliant, I love this. Your eyes light up, your heart sings. This is why I'm in the business. Can you recount for us a moment like that recently, where you felt that like spark for something, and does it happen often?

Eric Smith: 16:56

Trying to look at some book examples that might help.

Beth McMullen: 17:00

Again, the beautiful bookshelves that nobody can see.

Eric Smith: 17:04

I mean, it does happen often right.

Eric Smith: 17:06

And it's this hard to explain thing where, like if it's the query letter that grabs me and I feel like I need to read it, it's because it does some very specific things very well, like it. It lets me know what the stakes are. It lets me know who the character is. It lets me know why I should care about what's going on with the character. And it hits all the right sort of industry notes where it's like, oh, the word counts good, all the comp titles are good. Like it sounds like a story I want to read and something that I could see a home for. And when it comes to the actual pages and like I dive in and it's the first I'm reading, like the first, like three chapters, usually I'm looking for voice, right, that sort of undefinable thing that you develop as a result of all the reading and writing you've been doing your whole life. It's that thing that no one can really teach you. You know, sort of sort of in that space there I look for. You know I do look for pace and I look for, I look for character. I want to make sure I care about the character and I get a sense of what the stakes are early on Like those things will grab me right away. But I guess the thing that makes me get wide eyed and say like I need to have it is just like if I end up reading the book like a reader and I just sit there and I'm like, oh my God, this is good and I put it on. I put it on my very tiny Kindle that makes my hands look enormous, and I sit down and I read the whole thing in like one go. That that's it. That's the kind of book I want to work on.

Eric Smith: 18:25

I think there are two really fun examples I can bring up. I work with this one writer, allison Stein, and I don't resign to her at this point, but we were kicking around ideas for her second book. I'll never get the opening chapter she sent me because the opening pages of this book had this woman walking into the mouth of a dead whale on the beach to collect the plastic out of its stomach, because in this world plastic is currency for people and she knows she can use it to trade in her town. And that's how. That's the first 10 pages that this woman walking into the whale. And that book got nominated for lots of awards. It's called Trashlands. I love that book, I'm very proud of it. And then there's a. There's a writer named Neeta Tyndall, and when they sent me their first book, who I Was With Her, the opening chapter.

Eric Smith: 19:16

It said something about the main character and how they can't stop running. And it was just this very evocative opening page about this, this girl who can't stop running, and she's running track. You find out at the stories going on. But over the course of the first chapter you realize that she's running from a lot of things. She's running from, like, her complicated family. She's like running from herself because she's wrestling with her sexuality, is not to talk about it with people. She has a secret girlfriend that she doesn't know how to talk to but can't tell anyone about. So she's, she's running from a lot of things and it introduces this really beautiful image and see how it plays throughout the entire chapter and by the end of the chapter, you, you know what the book is about. You know, and I just, I remember gasping reading that chapter.

Eric Smith: 19:59

So good, yeah, no, those are some. Those are some good examples, like just grabbing me right out of the gate. But, like I know, I know there's a lot of advice out there floating on the Internet about how your opening 10 pages or your opening chapter has to hit you with the stakes and the action and the inciting incident right away. All that stuff I just talked about no stakes, no inciting incidents, no action right away. It's all character stuff. So so please remember, like whoever that was on tiktok that told you like Action needs to happen right away in your book, it doesn't just read any book in the history of ever, that is. That is not.

Beth McMullen: 20:38

That is a really good reminder about how important character is, because, oh yeah, it makes you vested. If you don't care about the character, you're never gonna care what happens to them. And exactly that little, that spark, that that alchemy that you talked about, feels so much like the character, the voice, the, you know, the thing that you should be working on harder than anything else.

Beth McMullen: 21:00

I have a friend who I've been, you know, helping him. He's a very well-known screenwriter. He wanted to write a novel and so I've been kind of just helping him do that and I said you know, you're gonna finish the novel, you're gonna come back to the beginning and then you're gonna have to rewrite the beginning because you figure out the voice. He figured out the voice about halfway through the book. Then he had the voice and I said now you got to go back to the beginning, rewrite it, because you've got your arms around the voice and it needs to show up in the beginning. But it's such an interesting, it's just fascinating. So that's really good, I think, for people to hear and to keep in their head as they're working More character, less like worrying about the inciting incident and all these other things you listen to listen.

Eric Smith: 21:43

That advice makes me so angry because, like you read, you read any book, like some book. Sure, they have the inciting incident in the beginning, that's fine. But like If, if your book opens up with two characters and like a sword fight or something, I don't care. Like I don't know this person like why do I care if they lose this sword fight? You know like I need to know why it's, why I should care, why it's important.

Beth McMullen: 22:04

I've done reading for some literary words in the past that I am not allowed to name, but I get 150 books and I read the first 15 pages and if I can't tell you who the character is and why I should care, I'm done. It's just. I mean, it's the same thing. It's just, you have this brief moment to capture the attention of your reader and if you don't do it, you're finished.

Lisa Schmid: 22:29

It's a good springboard to move on to the final question, which always, of course, leads to more questions. So, taking into consideration everything we've just talked about An aspiring author like who is writing from the heart They've got this. You know, everyone said this is my heart story, this is my. You know, this is what made me want to be a writer. And then balancing that with writing for market, how do you, how would you tell aspiring writers to approach that? Because it's like conundrum for them, because they want to Write the story, because it's something that's so meaningful to them, but, on the other hand, it might not be something that can be Sold, as you've mentioned earlier, like any advice for new writers.

Eric Smith: 23:13

So I'm a big proponent of the write the book of your heart sort of thing. Everyone should do it. That's what you should be writing the book that you care about, not writing the book that you think is gonna sell, and then and all of that, like it's, we all want to sell a book, we all want to be published, but, like I feel like sometimes you can tell when it's like a book someone's writing just to like get that deal Right, right, the book that you care about, the book that you're passionate about, and when it comes to the market, pay attention to it and don't pay attention to it at the same time. It's sort of the advice I like to give there pay attention to it in terms of, like, what you see on the bookshelves, right, like, oh, like word counts for this category that I'm writing and tend to be about this long, oh, people are writing a lot about X and Y, like see what voice is like in that specific category that you're writing.

Eric Smith: 23:59

If you suddenly see Something is trending right now and it's in the bookstores everywhere, like there are piles of mermaid books out or something right, like that probably means the trend is is maybe waning out and maybe a little bit over, but that doesn't mean they're not gonna want more of them eventually. Right, so still write that book, still write that mermaid book, because it trends always come back around, like right now we're having this, this big like sort of vampire Reemergence in literature. And she said that to somebody you know four years ago and seven, five years ago They'd be like, oh, vampires are dead, no one wants vampires. You have to ignore that kind of stuff. Right, the book you care about, you know the book.

Eric Smith: 24:39

I think like the first book that I wrote that was like in my author life, that was like very book of my heart, was this book called the girl on the Grove that came out with flux, who's like a small sort of sort of indie YA pressed, and I've done a couple of books with them in my agent life since then but no one wanted that book.

Eric Smith: 24:58

Like nobody wanted this book. It was like a YA contemporary that abruptly shifted into a fantasy novel Like halfway through the novel about this, like adopted girl who discovers her birth mother is a dry-ed tree spirit in this park that's about to be ripped down. I Sort of called it like inner city Fern Gully was was the pitch for it, which was probably a bad pitch because, like, kids don't know what Fern Gully is right now. But no one really wanted that book and I had to wait till someone took a chance on it and all the edits that I got back from editors and all the messages I got were like Take the magic out, don't do this, don't do that, don't do this.

Eric Smith: 25:32

But this was how I wanted it to play out, so I just I have to be patient and find the right person. So, yeah, don't give up on the book of your heart, so someone will want it.

Lisa Schmid: 25:41

It's so funny because I am with Jolly fish for my middle grade my first one and so it's. They are that kind of small indie press that they do take chances.

Eric Smith: 25:52

They will take the weird stuff you know. In my agent life I worked on this book called surrender your sons by Adam sass, and Flux put that one out. It won tons of awards. It did super well. No one wanted it when we pitched it to publishers and then Adam's Follow-up book sold in like a six-figure book deal Somewhere else you know, and he's having this amazing career now. They really helped help take him off, so I'm always gonna be great.

Lisa Schmid: 26:19

So what is on the top of your and wish list right now? Is there anything, excuse me, that you're looking for, that you're kind of putting out into the world and to the universe that you would like to see in your inbox?

Eric Smith: 26:32

You have some very specific requests, like I really want more Memoir and nonfiction and and fiction about the adoptee experience from adopted people. There are plenty of books out there about adopted kids by folks who aren't adopted and they're fine, but a lot of them get stuff wrong and I I'd like to See some better representation in that space. And Then I want more high concept rom-coms, which is something you're probably hearing agents and editors say a lot of the adult and why a rom-com market is there. There's a lot of them. So now the trick is figure out how to stand out. You know, I think a perfect example of that are writers like Ashley Poston and Lana Harper, who are doing like stuff with magic and time travel and things like that. Give me stuff like that. And yeah, definitely more kid lit nonfiction. I love middle grade nonfiction. I love. Why a nonfiction? There's a lot of stuff out there that's not being taught in schools and should be, so it's fun to find that stuff.

Lisa Schmid: 27:31

That's a great list. I encourage people to go and take a look at your website because it you have a lot of really good information, and I love that you have examples of query letters.

Lisa Schmid: 27:45

When you're first starting to query. That is the big mystery for so many writers that just to have no idea how to write that letter, how to format it. And I remember when I was starting to query I would always go out and look you know sample query letters and try to figure out what was the magic and seeing ones that have been successful, that obviously grabbed your attention. I think it's a wonderful resource and you just you have so much really good content on there for writers to go check out and also get a list of all your books.

Eric Smith: 28:15

Yes, and there's. There's also for my nonfiction friends. You might be listening. There's a nonfiction book proposals on there that you can download and you yourself.

Beth McMullen: 28:24

Yeah, that's great, good, good. Everybody. Go and look at the website. We'll put the link in the podcast notes so you can easily find it. So, eric, thank you so much for being here. This has been super informative. I know our listeners really, really love hearing from agents and the fact that you're also an author. You bring Kind of that little extra bit of knowledge that I think is really helpful for aspiring writers, writers that are in the trenches Querying all of those things. So thank you so much for sharing your time with us. We really appreciate it. My pleasure anytime. And thank you, listeners, for tuning in. Please follow and review our podcast and recommend it to a friend, and we will see you again next week, july 31st, with the new books on Botox episodes. So be sure to join us for that, and until then, happy reading, writing and listening.