In the latest episode of Writers With Wrinkles, join hosts Beth McMullen and Lisa Schmid as they talk with Kaitlyn Sanchez, a figure who has rapidly become a beacon in the world of children's literature. Kaitlyn, a literary agent at Bradford Literary, shares her unique story that transitions from a passion for mathematics to a growing influence in children's book publishing.
Listeners will be treated to an in-depth conversation that delves into the competitive landscape of picture book publishing, highlighting key trends and the increasing demand for stories that reflect our diverse society. Kaitlyn's insights into what makes a manuscript stand out in a crowded market are invaluable for aspiring authors.
Moreover, this episode sheds light on the importance of resilience in the face of industry rejection. Kaitlyn's approach to viewing rejections as mere "passes" and her emphasis on the significance of the right fit between an author and an agent provides a fresh perspective on the publishing journey.
Additionally, Kaitlyn discusses her eclectic taste in literature and its advantage in the dynamic world of book publishing, challenging the conventional wisdom of sticking to a specific writing "brand."
This episode is not just a narrative of success; it's a treasure trove of advice, inspiration, and a testament to the power of perseverance and personal growth in the literary world. Whether you're an established author, an aspiring writer, or a book lover, this episode promises to offer a unique blend of inspiration and practical guidance.
Don't miss this opportunity to hear from one of the most dynamic figures in children's literature today. Tune in to this episode of Writers With Wrinkles for a journey through the literary landscape with Kaitlyn Sanchez.
Hi friends, I'm Beth McMullen Lisa Schmid , and we're the co-hosts of Writers with Wrinkles. This is season three, episode six, and today we are thrilled to welcome Kaitlyn Sanchez to the show. Kaitlyn is a dedicated mom, wife, literary agent at Bradford Literary and a passionate middle school math teacher. She's also the proud co-creator and co-host of the Spring Fling Kidlit Contest, kidlit Zombie Week and the Kidlit Fall Writing Frenzy Contest. In her free time she loves to play soccer, binge, watch TV shows and, of course, read. So thank you for being here, Kaitlyn. When I read your bio, I again had that feeling like I'm a total slacker, like how do you get the time? You are one busy girl.
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
Well, first of all, I 100% believe I'm undiagnosed ADHD. I do my doctoring through Kaiser now and literally my therapist was like so you have most of the markers, but I just want to let you know that they probably won't diagnose you and I'm assuming it's just a monetary thing, like, hey, you're surviving, you're fine, so you're high functioning, you don't need it, yeah. So I guess I kind of attribute it to that. Before I understood that, which my husband totally diagnosed me, I always just made the analogy of how I grew up and so I was the kid that would go to school and then go to whatever sport I had at school and then I'd go to the practice for whatever sport I was playing outside of school and then I'd go home and do homework and pass out and do it all again, you know.
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
So that was just kind of the life that I liked to live. I just like to go, go, go, go go and then pass out. So I, you know, kind of select to do that. I love that we have so much more focus on mental health these days because I am finding ways to like slow myself down and, you know, give myself that space to, even though, like, I love to go go go, so I'm happy for that. But yeah, that's, I guess, I best way to answer. That is undiagnosed ADHD.
Lisa Schmid:
So I have a question that it's amazing, like one minute you were not an agent and then the next minute you were an agent and you were on fire, like you exploded onto the agenting scene and I always would like I would just watch it in amazement, like as you were announcing deal after deal after deal after deal, and then I would have people be like, oh, I said to her and I didn't get in, and I was just like, oh my God, she's like a hot property now. Like how did that all come about?
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
Oh, thank you. I mean I love that you said explosion because, like my, one of my nicknames when I was a kid was the Energizer Bunny and so, like I would always kind of like explode onto things and I was. I wish I could explain it I could, I could try, but essentially, like the way that it worked was just like and I've just figured this out recently. So, like my mom always told me I should be a children's book writer and as like a middle class, lower middle class kind of family where you know, both my parents worked and we, you know, saved all the time. I was really good at math because I liked helping my mom when we were shopping, like which was the better deal. My dad got laid off when I was like eight and so that was like my job was to help my mom make sure that we made the best purchases while we were dealing with having that lack of income. And so I just realized recently that I always took that you should be a children's book writer as just a mom, saying like you can do anything you know, and never actually thinking that could be a job, and I just realized I think I just rewatched it recently with my daughter, but I think Harry at the Spy. It's actually why I didn't believe that. Because the movie it was like the dad was a struggling writer and they could barely afford anything. So like in my mind, like writing was not like a job, like an occupation that you could have that could take care of your family, and so I never thought of it as a thing. You know, I loved writing and I had a great teacher when I was in third grade and from then on was like I'm going to be a teacher.
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
I like explored other things, of course, in high school and college, but that was like the main thing that I wanted to be and I knew it was a solid income kind of a thing. So when I had my daughter, my mom again, as I'm making up these rhymes and songs, whatever said like you should be a children's book author and, ironically, someone that I went to college with was trying it out, and so I was like OK, like let's, let's try this thing and dove into the world, had no money to do so, so I used all the free resources. Kiddlet 411. I think was the main resource that I found. That was like totally like blew my mind of like learning things, of course, going to the library and you know just reading a ton, and going to the bookstore and reading a ton and you know buying like one book, like walking out like sheepishly Like I got one, you know and finally saving up and doing SCWI.
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
And then I stumbled on these great contests, those free contests that Susanna Hill and Vivian Kirkfeld do all year. One of the critique groups I was in we were just like addicted to them and so we were devastated after Vivian's because after that Susanna's doesn't start up again and until, like, october is like March. So she March not to work. Oh my God, we're not going to have a contest. This is like the worst thing ever. And so Sierra O'Neill was just like, well, let's just do our own contest. And I was like, you know, vivian started her contest before she would publish. Let's just take it to the masses. I had no idea how much work it was and everything.
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
But my favorite part was just connecting people. Like at the end, when you, when you have people that are like, oh, you're going to connect with this person and get this prize, and some of them were like critiques and that just lit me up. I was just so enamored with that and I had two critique partners in other groups at the time that were interns. One is James McGowan and the other was Andrea, I want to say it's Hall. So they both kind of like helped me out because I was like, hey, is this what agents do? They edit people's work and then connect them with the right people to publish it. And they're like, yeah, I'm like, oh, my gosh.
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
And so Andrea actually connected me with Anna Alswanger, where I went and I had in another I had about nine critique groups at the time in another group one of my friends, melissa, who is the author of Fragopolis, which is a great picture book, and she was actually into resume writing. She was like part of her profession. So she was like okay, let me help you with this. And she's like you need to make it clear that you want to become an agent, because if you don't make it clear from the start, then it's not going to be clear to them. And so I did and I was like I want to be an agent. She was like, okay. So, anna, when she got my information, I was like okay, so you want to work as an intern for at least four months, then after that we'll talk about bringing clients on. And so I was like ready, four months had gone by and I was friends and still I'm obviously with Mindy's Mindy L's Weiss, who's in charge of picture book party and so she was like can you be an agent on there? So that's kind of how I, because I started in November and so I was like, hey, anna, remember, you said like four months, can I go participate in this? And she's like, yeah, okay. So one thing led to another and I worked with some of her clients too. I didn't sell anything for them, but when I got some of my first clients so Laura Kay Zimmerman was one of my first clients and Margaret eight K was one of my first sorry, also favorite, but first client Margaret's book was the first one that sold. It was like a couple of rounds of R&Rs and ever since then it was just like trying.
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
And I guess the other thing was I've always been like a salesperson. Like I said, we didn't have a lot of money growing up, so if I wanted to participate in sports or if my sister wanted to participate in stuff, you know like we had to raise the money ourselves, and so I was very attuned to that. So I never wanted to be a salesperson, because there's some things about sales that I'm not a super fan of. So when I learned that essentially, agenting is kind of like selling but you know, selling it in a regard where it's things that are going to make a big positive impact in the world I was like, sweet, I can use my sales acumen for that, and so that's kind of how I approach everything. It's like how can I sell this to someone? How can I take this idea? Obviously it's got to be good enough, but you know, figure out a way to sell it to editors so that they're like we want to buy this.
Lisa Schmid:
That's an amazing background, because that is one thing I've always wondered about you and I've always admired, like not not just the fact that you're succeeding as an agent, but just seeing everything you did. So that is leads perfectly into the first question. Let's do this. So the picture book market has always been competitive, as you know, but it feels like even more so now, and are there any emerging trends or shift in the industry that you think authors should be aware of right now?
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
Yeah, I mean I wish I could give you more.
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
It's pretty much what I'm going to say.
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
People already know, but you know the facts that we are having books that are really representing kids and they can see themselves in books has obviously been the best shift that's happened in recent years Not that it hasn't been that way in the past, but the fact that it's really focused on that making sure that every kid, no matter what they go through, where they are from or anything about them, they can see themselves in books.
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
I think that's the best shift that I've seen. I know since COVID, a lot of editors are really really asking for funny because there's a huge focus on social emotional learning at that time, and so they're really just like I just want funny, give me funny. So that's pretty much the main thing that I'm seeing and I know, based on all the you know, research agents are always doing that picture book sales have been going down and I personally attribute that to the fact that they went up so high during COVID. But I think that could be one reason why it's such a more stringent market right now, where we have editors being a lot thicker.
Beth McMullen:
Yeah, that's interesting. I think we're still. You can still see those little bits of hangover from COVID and various things and it just skews all the data. So you know, if you didn't have that, you wouldn't be looking like you've gone down, you'd be looking like maybe you're going up steadily, but everything got all messed up. I really like this next question. I think it's going to be helpful for a lot of our listeners. So what advice, as an agent, do you have for aspiring authors who are looking for literary representation? What is it when you see a manuscript that you end up representing? What is it about that work that just makes you say yes.
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
Oh, that's such a tough question and, again, I wish I could say something more helpful, but I mean, it's that uniqueness. I think the thing, though, that people don't generally realize is like, just like writers, I feel like agents pick parts of them. Like, when I look at my team, like as a reflection, like everything that they do and everything that they are, there's like a piece of me that connects to that in some way. It's like one of my clients she has a book that the main character focuses on the poverty and trying to get her family out of poverty, and my personal experience with dealing with my father getting laid off. I connect that on just a much higher level. The hard part is, you know, like you're like oh cool, that's great, I just need to connect to that agent. But there's not really enough out there about the agents to know that, but I really do, like I feel like there's something you know, like if you look at Rebecca Garnlevington's newest amounts book right here right now, like obviously I connected to that because I'm a teacher and I also love writing as much as I love math, and so I love that.
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
This book is like everyone can enjoy writing, no matter who they are, no matter what they're like. That speaks to me so deeply. Being like people like, oh, you're a math teacher, like you can't like writing, who put that in your head. So there's so many books that we have on our list. You know, like Brave, like mom, by Monica Acker is just this beautiful book and, yes, it's about hardship, but like it's about loving yourself and being proud of yourself and your mom and I have a huge connection. My mom has just been the best person in my life and she always supports me, and she was one of those moms where I'm like okay, mom, how do you spell this? She's like look it up, you're fully capable of doing that yourself. You know. I mean, I could just go on and on about all of my clients books where it's that same thing, where I'm just like there's a part of me that understands that on a deep level, and so I guess the best advice that I can give is just keep trying until you find that person that gets it on that level. And that's the hardest part, because there's so much rejection in this industry, it is so hard to keep going, it is so hard to keep going Ack.
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
Just because you get 100 nos, it doesn't mean that it's not great. It could mean that it does need work right. It could mean that you need to work on some basics of like your plot buildings, your character arcs, your writing style, different things like that. So I don't mean that as like you've written one thing and you're only gonna stick with that and go on with that forever. But I do mean that when you're deep down into that, like who's gonna buy this story and who's gonna love this story, like finding that person that actually loves it.
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
I mean I can tell you one of my clients we finally sold her first book last year and she was just like oh my gosh, I wanted to give up so many times. I'm so glad that you didn't give up on my books, because I wouldn't have been published otherwise and I would have totally given up on myself and that's the person that you want working for you. You want someone that's like I don't care if you believe in yourself or not, I believe in you enough for both of us. Let's get your gorgeous workout into the world. That's amazing.
Lisa Schmid:
That's and you know what that's the kind of agent we all need, because as writers I mean we all, and Beth always says this we're fragile creatures and, you know, there's times when I'm like, yeah, I'm good, I'm done, like how many times do I do that, beth?
Beth McMullen:
Every day. I guess we would say probably Lisa quits every day.
Lisa Schmid:
So, but I have a question. So I just had a friend who just signed with somebody a picture book writer Yay, and I was like you need to have a couple other manuscripts in the queue that you could pitch to her when you have that call. So say, you love that first picture book, but you don't love, like, what they send you after. That Does that happen very often? And then you're just like, yeah, this isn't gonna be a good fit, they still need to do some work.
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
Yeah, unfortunately that does, because with a novel, right Like, you're working on that for a really long time and it's going out, and so that's something where you can kind of just like focus on that. But with picture books, for me personally, the reason I like to have multiple is because I like to be able to shit. So, like a good example that I like to give is like one of my clients, the first three books, I think, that she like queried me with I don't think. I don't think we've sold any of them. We might have come back and sold one of them, but it's like some of her other stuff After that we've sold, and now I think we've sold three or four books for her. But it's like because we were able to be like, okay, that one didn't work, let's shelve that for a while, we'll come back. Okay, let's try this other one.
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
But because I loved her work and I love what she does, it was I was able to shift, and so that's kind of a really, really a tough one, because if you love the first one, obviously that's like the most polished. That's what sending out usually right, sometimes they're all the same level of polish. But then if you don't connect with the other ones. It's like, wow, I'm just not gonna be the best person to represent you if I don't love these ones as well. But then there's also that thought of okay, here's, let's say they send one, and then I asked for three more. I'm looking at four.
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
If there's one that I don't really like, then I'm kind of like okay, well, that's fine. Like there's, it's only one, but it has to be not like oh my gosh, I would never go out with that one. It has to be more of, just like oh, that's just not really my style kind of a thing. But if it's like I only have, like if I really only liked that first one and the other two, I'm like I just don't have a vision for what we do with that. Or I'm not sure if I could figure out editors that could work with them, or I don't know how to edit that story. Then that just tells me like okay, this I'm not the person for this, but that book is so great they'll find someone else, like that's always the hope. It's like obviously, that first book is so great, it could be that the other ones need more work. Or it could just be like I'm just not the right person and someone else is gonna be that right person for them.
Lisa Schmid:
I've always wondered that. Because it's there's that first picture book and all our work. It's like been workshopped, it's been critiqued, it's been polished, shiny and pretty. It's like the same thing when you're writing a novel. It's always the first 25 pages are glorious because you probably workshopped it, and then after that you're just like this is getting a little rough.
Beth McMullen:
Well, how often have you read the second in a series and it's just terrible, because the author had years and years and years to work on the first entry and then they had six months to write the second one and you can really see just the falloff in quality. It's not the author's fault, it's the business, right. So I often read the first in a series and I love it. I'm so excited I get the second and I was like this is the sophomore disease, this is what happened. I mean, it's happened to me. I totally get it, like I feel for them, but it's yeah, it's interesting.
Beth McMullen:
So we touched on this a little bit. But I know that our listeners, like you know, they want concrete answers for everything. So we talked a little bit about having more than one polished manuscript. When you start approaching agents with your work just because they're going to want to see more than your single one, how many if you had to just throw out a number like a ballpark number, how many manuscripts it polished manuscripts, manuscripts in good shape, ready for the world to see do you think authors should have before they start that process? Cause I would, I hate the idea of somebody who has maybe one or two really good manuscripts, and then they start querying and they're rejected because they don't have a big enough portfolio yet. So how many do you look for just to get a sense that this is somebody who can actually produce work?
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
for picture books at least three. That's what I prefer and actually that's what my agency does. I don't know which picture book agent that used to be at Bradford started it, but I love it. So like when they submit to us, they submit two to three, so like we, I shouldn't even just get one. It doesn't say like submit one to three, so it's two to three, like we should see at least two pieces from you, and then that also kind of pairs down the whole, like I really loved the first one but I'm not sure about the other one. So for me personally I like four, because I used to start with one and then ask for three. But now I'm like, okay, like give me those two to three, but I typically these days will be like, send me one to three more to make sure, because I have such a great, wonderful list of authors that are picture book, I don't have many holes to fill because a lot of them are already filled.
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
Like I have a beautiful watercolor artist that's an author illustrator. I have an adorable author illustrator in DK who does like funny stuff but also does really sweet stuff. I have a phenomenal rhymer in Rebecca Garton-Levington. I have so many amazing authors that it's like where would you fit, like would you be competing with each other? And so that's kind of the hard part For me personally. Because I have such a full stable of authors and author illustrators for picture books, it's hard for me to bring a new one on because I'm like I really don't have a space right now to fit that. So like I mean, I still have room for funny. Everyone's looking for funny, so we all have room for that, whether it's in rhyme or non-rhyme, just funny in general. But also funny is hard because it doesn't always land.
Beth McMullen:
I like that answer because it's a good reminder for people that it's more than just that one idea. You really have to be comfortable generating multiple ideas and you do have to be willing to pitch yourself as filling a slot, right? Are you that funny writer? Are you that sweet sentimental? Do you have amazing illustrations that you do as the writer, illustrator, like how are you gonna market yourself to the agent so that they can see you as a person who can or cannot fit into their existing universe? I think those are hard and true things. They just are, and it's good to keep them in mind when you're producing your work. If your work is all gonna be similar to each other, that's better than if you're writing all over the place, when then they don't know what to do with you.
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
I actually will disagree with that part because I am super eclectic so I'm like 100% fine. So like Monica Acker, her brave, like mom, that's her first story. Her second story we sold is like super funny.
Beth McMullen:
Okay, discount what I just said.
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
Most agents, most agents do like that Like, they like that consistency because you can build a brand right. But I also don't agree that a brand has to be the same Like. If you look at Dan Santat, like I mean, yes, his art you can totally tell when you see him, but he has written such an array and, you know, done art for such an array of different things that like I think he kind of shows really well that like your brand doesn't necessarily have to be like I only write sweet books or I only write funny books. So I don't mean to negate that in like that's not something that we should think about. But I am like totally cool with things being super eclectic and I know like when I brought DK Rylondon, like her focus was like sweet and funny and so far we've pretty much sold both.
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
Right, you could think of Giraffe is Too Tall for this book as kind of sweet, but also, you know, interactive and her new one coming out this year it used to be the missing acorn we're just talking about this the other day. What's his new title? Have you seen my acorn? And it's so funny, you know, and so like we did, but it wasn't like in the same book, Like the first ones that we sent were like sweet and funny and it was like kind of more like okay, this one's the sweet side, this one's the funny side, you know. So I don't mean to like negate that as like a negative thing, Like it's totally great if you have a brand and you can stick with that. But I love being all over the place and as long as I love it, as long as I love the writing and I know where it could fit in the market and what imprint, what publisher, then I'm like let's do it.
Lisa Schmid:
One of the things that I mean just because you were talking about that is, like, as a new agent, how did you figure out the editors, like how did you figure out the landscape of publishing and get to know the editors and the imprints and the publishers and know where to send it? Because that's, I think that's one of the things that I found really intriguing about you was, like, how did she just jump in and know, like, where to send these? Because finding the right editor and having them because they're inundated with picture books is I think especially that you would catch their eye, because a lot as a new agent, they're just you don't have that clout maybe, and so I found that you were able I thought it was interesting that you were able to like break through that right away. I love talking to people.
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
So at first, when I was working at Anna Swinger, I asked Anna about that and she said, okay, we'll go to publishers marketplace and figure out the imprints. And so, like, I literally built it from the ground up. I think a lot of agencies have kind of like an infrastructure of like this is this these imprints fall under this publisher and you can submit to these at the same time, but not those at the same time. I built that from the ground up. That was something that Anna had me do on my own so that I can like know it's like. I know that internally Like if you ask me, can you submit to this imprint at this print at the same time, I immediately know, because that's something I did at the very beginning and so I really appreciate Anna for that. I also found out from because things change too from the editors, from talking to them, and so at first I didn't realize that you even could talk to editors, which it used to be that way apparently. You know like you would just call and talk and you know then mail something. But because I was new to the industry, you know the way that Anna worked was emailing, and so you know she'd make a submission list and email it out. So that's how I thought it worked. And what actually happened was I was a member of SCBWI as a writer myself, and they have the insights and they'll have editors sometimes where you can submit to them directly for that month. And so I saw this great editor. I was like, oh, this person would be so great for one of my clients, but their inbox is going to be so full of these SCBWI awesome submissions. And so I asked Anna. I was like, can I like call her and like pitch something to her? She's like, yeah, of course. And right when I found that out, I was like, oh my gosh, I can have calls with these people and talk to them and get to know them. And so that was when my brain went oh my god, this is going to be so awesome and I still have editor meetings all the time.
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
Sometimes it's to catch up with them, sometimes it's to get to know new editors, and it is my favorite part of the week Like, no matter what's going to be happening at school, no matter what's going to be happening with my family, no matter what's going on, I'm like, oh my gosh, I have an editor meeting today, life is going to be good. Often we just kind of get to know each other. I mean, it's really like it's about building relationships, right, and so you're trying to kind of get the person's vibe. So we do directly talk about these are things I like, these are things I don't like and things like that, or these are things I'm looking for.
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
But really just kind of getting to know someone, you kind of feel their vibe, or at least I like to do that, and so I'm kind of like oh, this person said these kind of things and I remember talking to them and feeling like they kind of lean towards this kind of writing style. So I'm going to try this with them. We're like we'll talk about different shows, that we like to watch different books. This one is kind of like that, this has that vibe. I'm totally going to send them, you know.
Lisa Schmid:
So moving on to our last and probably one of the most important questions, is there anything else you'd like to share with our audience, especially aspiring authors who may be listening?
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
Oh, my gosh it. I mean we kind of already touched on it, but it's such a hard industry that's so full of rejection. I don't call it rejection with my clients, I call it passes, because they just passed on the opportunity to work with them. Yeah, because it's like, oh, your work is still awesome. They just decided to pass on it and allow you to be open up for someone else. My clients actually teach me.
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
I think David McMullen and Monica Acker are the two that like teach me the most, because David was an actor on Broadway for a really long time and so he's like I dealt with rejection all the time, you know. And so he really reminds me sometimes like it's okay, we'll get the next one. And Monica, my favorite was, you know, we were like super close, was selling her book a couple of times and then when we finally found the right place for it, she was like it's like when you find those right genes, the genes that just fit just right, like you want to find that editor, you don't want to just find any old genes that kind of you know like they'll fall down, or you know, when you bend over, you get what you don't want. She didn't say that, but I'm adding that that's how I envision it. We want the genes that fit just right, and it takes a while to find them. I think that's one of my.
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
One of the things that's really hard is like we're dealing with rejection all the time too. We love these books too, but we also understand that we're going to keep trying and we're going to find it, and that's so hard to do by yourself. So having the support like sounds like you and both you know Lisa and Beth here you both have with each other, you know, like remind each other, like yeah, I know you want to quit, but you're going to keep going. Just that support, whether it's, you know, with writers or with your family or both, it's really helpful, because dealing with that rejection is not easy. And continuing to go on and this isn't just for debut authors, you know, like when we're going out with the second or third and trying to, you know, get another book sale, like that's hard too. And people, I think, don't think of it as much because like, oh, like you've already sold one, like obviously you're going to keep going, and that's hard because it's like, yes, I would love to keep going, but we still have to find the right fit and it's not always that same editor that bought the first one. Sometimes it is, and it's great. Other times, you know, it's different editors all over the place. You know, and that's what's kind of extra fun about PictureBook is like you really can kind of go all over to different editors and find different editors that still work really well with you, no matter who they are or where they're from. But of course, I mean I kind of touched on it earlier too of that idea of just because you're getting noses doesn't mean your idea isn't good or your writing isn't good, but that doesn't mean to stop working because you might be able, you might be surprised at what you end up doing.
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
One of my favorite things about the contests that we do and you know one of the reasons why we still run them because it's a ton of effort and we always want them to be free, because we want people to be able to experience them. Andrew, I think it's Hack it he participated in I think it was the fall writing frenzy and he wrote something totally different than what he usually writes and what he had been querying, and that's the piece he got his agent with, and he's continuing to write similar things, and he never would have thought of it if it wasn't for the fall writing frenzy. And that just blows my mind. And that's the same thing for those of you that are participating in Terrell Lazar's contest right now Storystorm where it's like it's just so inspiring because essentially it's the whole month of January just like how to generate ideas, inspiration from authors that are published or about to be published, and it's just like new things come up that you would have never thought of. So that doesn't mean abandon other ideas, but just knowing that it might not be your first, second, third or fourth book that ends up. You know getting out there, but every book you're learning and you can always go back to learned enough to really feel like you're comfortable in your writer's skin and go back like, oh, I know how to take this idea to a whole nother level. That's going to get picked up.
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
And I think the last thing that I really, as a coming at this from like the sales point of view, is I am a huge advocate of submitting directly to publishers and even at the same time as querying agents, like I see no issue with it. It's one of those like how can you sell something if you're not getting the information out there. You know, and sometimes it comes from okay, I submitted to this publisher, this publisher wants to buy it. Hey, agent, do you want to help me with this one and then help me further on in my career? You know so it may not be the popular view, but it's the view that I'm. Like that makes sense, like that's actually how I got into industry. I actually sold my book first and got my first agent that way.
Beth McMullen:
That is great. This is all great advice. We have kept you for a long time and we know that you are very busy, so we're going to wrap up. I'm going to try to make sure that the Blue Jean publisher editor idea gets legs, because I love that. Now, all I care is someone's butt hanging out of their jeans and I'm like that's the wrong fit. Do not go with that.
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
Monica is going to be like how did you take my beautiful analogy and make it so bad.
Beth McMullen:
Nope, I love it, I am all in. It is great. So, Kaitlyn, thank you so much for being here and sharing all of this vast experience with us. I know that we are grateful, and our listeners are going to be grateful too.
Kaitlyn Sanchez:
Oh, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I had so much fun. Thank you, guys.
Beth McMullen:
And listeners, remember you can find out more about Kaitlyn in our podcast notes and on our sparkly new website, writerswithwrinklesnet, and also in the podcast notes you can find out how to support the show by subscribing, following and recommending, and we hope you will. And we will see you again next week, february 12th, for a big picture episode where we continue our journey of editing and submitting for publication and original picture book manuscript. Things are heating up, so we don't want you to miss that and until then, happy reading, writing and listening.