The Big Picture Part 3—Navigating the Picture Book Publishing Maze: Tips, Resources & Encouragement

This week we dived deep into the picture book publishing process. Whether you're at the beginning of your journey, stuck in the middle, or just looking for that extra nudge, we've covered everything you need to know to navigate this challenging yet rewarding path.

Our Picture Book Journey: We share the latest on Cat's Rule and the unagented submission process. Despite the silence from publishers, we're just at the beginning!

Dealing with Submissions: We talked about the frustration of unresponsive publishers. Yet, there's hope in platforms like Entangled Publishing's Little Lark, which allows authors to track their submission's progress. It's a game-changer in maintaining sanity during the waiting game.

Joining SCBWI: If you haven't already, joining the Society of Children's Book Writers and Illustrators (SCBWI) is a must. It's been a beacon of support, resources, and community for both of us. From critique partners to craft agents, SCBWI offers everything you need to grow in the kid lit world.

Craft Development Resources: We also highlighted invaluable resources for honing your craft, such as the Highlights Foundation, the Writing Barn, and the Children's Book Academy. These platforms offer workshops, classes, and webinars that are accessible virtually, making them perfect for any schedule and budget.

Feedback is Gold: Embrace feedback on your work. It's the cornerstone of growth. Sharing your work, even when it's scary, opens the door to invaluable insights that can transform your writing.

Contests and Pitch Parties: Don't overlook contests and Twitter pitch parties like #PBPitch. They're fantastic opportunities to gain visibility, feedback, and even catch the eye of agents and publishers. Plus, winning or being shortlisted in contests can be a significant boost to your author bio.

Querying Resources: When you're ready to query, resources like Sylvia Liu's Advanced Tips for Querying Agents and the monster list of picture book agents by Heather Ayris Burnell are indispensable.

Final Thoughts: Putting yourself out there is essential. Whether it's joining SCBWI, submitting to contests, or querying agents, each step you take brings you closer to your dream of publishing a picture book.

Remember, we're in this together, cheering each other on every step of the way. So, dive into the resources we've shared, embrace the journey, and keep writing. Your story deserves to be told, and the world is waiting to hear it.

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Transcript

Beth McMullen: 0:31

Hi friends, I'm Beth McMullen and I'm Lisa Schmid, and we're the co-hosts of Writers with Wrinkles. This is season three, episode seven, and this is a big picture episode. We're gonna give you an update on our picture book process and also focus on some resources that are picture book related. For those of you who are in the middle of this process, at the beginning of this process, thinking about this process, and just a little side note Jamie, I know you're listening and I'm talking to you. This is for you, so pay attention. All right, so let's talk about our submissions, of our picture book. I wish I could say it was exciting.

Lisa Schmid: 1:12

I've got nothing. We are in the trenches and it's dark and sad and scary.

Beth McMullen: 1:18

There's no light at the end of the tunnel. Okay, but the reason that I wanted to do a picture book episode, besides the fact that we're gonna give you all this really amazing information in a minute Okay, remember, we have written this picture book. It's about a cat and a dog out there. The cat thinks that cats and dogs can't be friends, and the dog slowly convinces the cat that they can in fact be friends. And so you know, the themes are friendship and there's a lot of humor, and we love this little picture book.

Beth McMullen: 1:49

But we are doing it on agentin, which means that we've removed the middle man and we are interacting with the publishers just ourselves. And what that means is that we get a lot of emails that say thank you for submitting your manuscript. We may never get back in touch with you. That's the gist of it. So you've followed all their rules and, believe me, all these publishers have different ways of accepting your unagented manuscripts. There's a lot of details. Remember to pay attention to those. But and this bugs me, I'm gonna just put it out here A lot of them say we get so many submissions. I totally have empathy for that. I'm sure they are inundated and then they say we may never close the loop on this, we may never answer you, which I feel like. In today's day and age, you can figure out a way to send an email that says hard pass, not, interested. That's a really easy to do, and then you close the loop and you're done. What are your thoughts?

Lisa Schmid: 2:56

I think it would be nice. I mean, there's nothing worse than and it happens with agents too. I mean it just this is the world of publishing is that you send off, you put all your hopes and dreams into that little email that you've sent off and then you never get a response and it just it really it doesn't feel good because you're always hanging on the edge, wondering is this the day I wish? I really do wish that publishers and agents and I think agents are really managing that now with Query Tracker and that's perfect Like have a system in place that acknowledges the work that somebody is submitting to you and be respectful of it in return. I just I think that is the bare minimum is to be respectful of that and that acknowledgement of that work. I've never liked it. I know that when I was querying, it didn't feel good. I was. I went ages without hearing from anyone and I just didn't feel good.

Beth McMullen: 3:51

It really shapes.

Beth McMullen: 3:54

I think the reason that it does is because it's such a small hurdle to get over for it to be fixed on the other side. You're absolutely right. I think the agents are getting their arms around it a little more, but these publishers and I get that. They're very small, but this thing can be automated pretty easily, especially in our AI universe. Now the authors can handle the rejection. They have to be able to handle the rejection. There's so much of it in this business, as pretty much everybody who comes on this show tells you. But it's that, like you said, that sort of lingering unknown that you can fixate on, and authors are also really good at fixating on things. So why not close loop? Why not just say thanks, no, thanks.

Lisa Schmid: 4:42

Well, yeah, I feel like half of our time and I've been there when I was querying is you become a stalker and a private investigator. You're looking at every single tweet, researching them online, looking for a clue, any little morsel or crumb that they may drop online that gives an indication if they're reading your manuscript, if they like your manuscript. You spend part of your time doing that because you're not getting any response. Anyway, it would just be nice, and I think we came across one publisher that actually had a system in place that was like query tracker. Talk about that.

Beth McMullen: 5:22

So Entangled has a number of imprints and we submitted to the picture book imprint, which is little lark, and if you go to entangledpublishingcom you'll see all their imprints. They have a ton and you submit following their guidelines. They have a portal for your submission. It doesn't go email, it goes through a portal. You create an account and then you get back a link to your submission that you can then track. So when they get to the no, thank you, you will know and then you check them off your list.

Beth McMullen: 5:59

Or maybe they say yes, but I'm a cynic so I assume that everybody's going to say no, have you checked it lately? No, because, unlike you, I send this stuff off and then I completely forget about it, Like it's out of sight, out of mind. I appreciate that people are out there stalking Twitter and whatnot for little bits of information about the people in publishing or the agents or people that they're interested in, whatever. But I just I'm an out of sight, out of mind kind of girl, Like once it's off my plate I forget about it until it shows back up. But I haven't checked.

Beth McMullen: 6:32

I think I just submitted to them last week or two weeks ago, so it hasn't been that long. Most of the publishers that I have submitted this manuscript to are seeing four to six months for a response, which it would have surprised me, except that remember when we had our conversation with Jennifer March Salloway, the agent, she also said that it's taking much longer right now because there's just such an increase in submission. So it definitely requires patience. But at least, with this little lark, we will know when the whole process is complete. They have looked at it. They either move on to the next step or they say no, thank you, and that is really makes me feel very fondly for them, about them, even if they reject our book, because they're at least paying attention and showing some respect to the author on the other side of this process.

Lisa Schmid: 7:25

Yeah, I like that a lot when you told me about that and then. But each time when I had asked you if you've checked it and you're like no, I'm like how are we friends?

Beth McMullen: 7:35

I'm just going to give you the credentials and you can check it. You can obsess if you want.

Lisa Schmid: 7:40

Let me go watch it.

Beth McMullen: 7:42

I want to watch it. I'm going to. No, I will. I'm going to as soon as we're done recording, I'm sending you that stuff.

Lisa Schmid: 7:47

Oh, I can hardly wait. This is fun. I even like when it like rejections would come in. I just felt like seen.

Beth McMullen: 7:56

You know what I mean. Yes, I would much rather have a rejection than a nothing. I mean, the nothing is just it's not the way that you should be doing business and it makes you look bad. It's an easy fix. That's the part that I think bugs me. If you didn't have, if you didn't have these tech tools right at hand that could easily address this problem, I would totally understand. You know, if it's a manpower issue, you just can't do it. I get that, but that's not the case anymore.

Beth McMullen: 8:28

So, anyway, we're going to get off our soapbox now and get into some resources that can help you become a fabulous published picture book writer. So the reason that we're talking about resources for picture books is because this is a big picture episode and we want to stay on theme and not be confusing. We are going to come back in a couple of weeks with a bunch of similar resources for adult fiction, which you know. We're just keeping that as a separate episode not to confuse the process. So we want to make you smart about all of this. So, lisa, do you want to talk about SCBWI?

Lisa Schmid: 9:11

Well, we've just now entered the picture book world and it is a huge universe of resources out there. I had no idea there is so much support and love for picture book writers out there. We're going to like highlight some of them today, but then we're going to give you a link to find like all of them, because it just there is a lot.

Lisa Schmid: 9:31

There is, and so, first of all, if you are a picture book writer and you have not done this, the first step is join SCBWI, and SCBWI is the Society of Children's Books Writers and Illustrators. It is a must do if you are going to start writing in kid lit. It's a huge resource for critique partners, craft agents.

Beth McMullen: 9:55

They run a lot of virtual classes too, like free online workshops. They have virtual conferences, they have awards and grants that you can apply for, and it's organized by regional chapters. So you have the overarching organization that offers a lot of stuff, and then your community, your local community, will offer its own resources and I swear to you there's probably not a region in this country that's not covered by one of these chapters, and they are definitely going to focus more on the stuff that you can do locally. So once you join, you pick your chapter, you get involved with that. It will give you a community too because, remember, writing is something you do very much alone.

Beth McMullen: 10:45

So these community building opportunities are super important to take advantage of, especially when you're just starting out. The first thing I did so I'd written a couple of adult books, I wrote a kid's book. I was totally lost in the weeds and the first thing I did was join SCBWI and it was like a warm embrace from the community because everybody was happy to help and give guidance and just sort of help you navigate this very vast ocean from zero to 60. So I really I cannot recommend enough going out and if you have a very limited amount of money to spend, this is where you should spend it.

Lisa Schmid: 11:27

Absolutely, and that's where we met and you are going to meet your people there Totally and undoubtedly. You will find your critique group there. I did those. My critique partners like helped me so much with my writing and they're still cheering me on and helping me. So it's just. That is the very, very first step and before you do anything else, the other thing we wanted to highlight is you know, there's just a lot of different resources for you to learn the craft of writing a picture book. We already mentioned SCBWI, but there's the Highlights Foundation. They always have something going on and these are virtual events or, you know, a lot of people go in person, which is like a bucket list for me. But there's also the Writing Barn has virtual events. There's the Children's Book Academy, the Storyteller Academy. There's a lot of resources out there for you to take advantage of and hone your craft.

Beth McMullen: 12:21

And one of the things that I think is a hangover from the pandemic is that almost all of these resources offer virtual webinars, live events, things that you can do without ever leaving your house. So the good thing about that is, of course, finances. A lot of them are free. A lot of them are if you join the organization. Then you have these things for free and you can come back to them at any time, depending on where you are in your process.

Lisa Schmid: 12:52

Yeah. So that is, take advantage of what's out there and don't be shy, get involved. And the other thing I would say, like almost immediately I know people get shy about sharing their work with other people and they think, oh, it's not good or it's not this or that You've got to share. You've got to share your work, because it's by sharing your work you become a better writer. And I know it's hard. Amen, sister, it is hard. I cried at my first critique.

Beth McMullen: 13:22

Okay, so this is Penny, my college age kid is taking a writing class and he said to me yesterday he said we have to read aloud what we wrote and it's horrible no-transcript. I was laughing so hard I was like, well, get used to it, kid.

Lisa Schmid: 13:45

Yeah, it's hard, and I think the very first one I was at the Big Sur conference and somebody else read my work out loud and I could see after I'd already seen how great everyone else was. I was like, oh my god, my work's so bad. But it was my first workshop, it was just starting and I remember walking out of there, crying, going. I am, this is horrible, I can't do this. But then within a few minutes I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm at a writers conference and I'm crying. I'm like dying again. I've arrived, I've arrived, I'm doing this, and so after that it was just like you know what, it's just part of the gig, and so you've got to get over it and just be brave. I know it's super hard, but just put your work out there.

Beth McMullen: 14:34

That's the first step, you need to reframe it in your head too, so that instead of seeing it as a personal criticism, you're seeing it as a productive critique, and then it gives you something to build on. The thing I hate the most the stage of writing that I hate the most is when I've drafted a manuscript and I haven't got any feedback on it yet, because I have nowhere to go. There's nowhere to go from there. Until I get the feedback that gives me a path forward, I am stuck. You do not want to be stuck in that place between completing what you can do and being afraid or not getting feedback, because your manuscript will never evolve to the place where you can get it published. You really need that input and you have to look at it as something that you are excited about, because it just helps you get better.

Lisa Schmid: 15:30

That's exactly how I see it now. When I am getting, when I see somebody who's sent back my manuscript with notes, I'm excited because, one, it's an opportunity for me to grow as a writer, but, two, I get to see how my words are being interpreted. And what am I missing? Because they're going to be honest, they're going to give it to you. I'm actually just I just sent a proposal over to my agent and she just sent back my notes and I was like, ooh, I can hardly wait to see what Leslie has to say.

Beth McMullen: 16:01

I know Lisa wants us to get down here quickly so she can go bust into her notes and start tearing that thing apart. I know.

Lisa Schmid: 16:08

Anyway. Ok, so we talked about getting your work out there being brave. So another way to get your work out there and this is all about kind of getting some street cred and building your community and getting your name out in the picture book community. There are a bunch of contexts that you can enter in your picture book, and we have a whole list of them, but there's some that are really popular, like Vivian Kirkfeld's, 50 Precious Words, spring Fling, kiddlett, susanna Hill's Contests. All these contests serve a really good purpose. One it helps you really work on your craft of writing a picture book. But also, if you win a contest, it gives you something to list in your query and your bio and it gets your work and your name in front of agents and editors who are seeing these contests out there. So as soon as you feel like you're at a point where, ok, my manuscript's been critiqued, I'm feeling good about it, let's start entering contests, because it does serve multiple purposes for you and helping you to succeed.

Beth McMullen: 17:10

I did not know what any of these contest things were and then when I started poking around in them, there are so many and they're free. They're totally free. I mean, the hard work is being done by the person who's organizing it, so you definitely want to give them a shout out. But it's just people who love and are passionate about this type of book and they want to give authors a leg up. So definitely take advantage of this stuff. Pick a few and just jump in and do those and there's so many. You're going to find something that kind of fits your vibe and, yeah, I can't recommend it enough. It's like, again, low hanging fruit.

Lisa Schmid: 17:52

Well, and my friend Joss, she who just signed with an agent and it was announced she was the one I was jumping up and down and screaming about. She just signed with her agent and she started off doing all these these contests and she was winning them Like she was being like a runner up or whatever, and then she actually got her first book deal through one of these contests. So they serve a purpose out there, like get involved. And I saw, I watched her from day one just jump in with both feet. I met her at SCBWI and just watched her grow and it was all from her putting herself out there and really building like her brand.

Beth McMullen: 18:35

Yeah, and some of these are seasonal. They happen at the same time every year. So if you show up for one and it says OK, it's closed for this year, just make a note in your calendar. Come back to it the following year, especially if it's one that you think is a good fit for you.

Lisa Schmid: 18:52

Yeah. So now that you've done all this work and you've laid the groundwork for your success, it's time to start queering. This is where the fun starts. So you know, first of all, we've all been through it and you will get through it too, I promise. So, starting off, we found some different resources that you can look at. One is I found this tips for queering with Sylvia Liu. She has a whole page on strategies for queering and how to find agents and how to like, avoid bad agents, how to manage your queering in a constructive way, not like me, who is just all over the place. So that's a really good resource.

Beth McMullen: 19:32

This page that she has, and we will put links to all the stuff that we're talking about in the podcast notes. But this page is called Advanced Tips for Queering Agents on her website and it is pretty much everything that you need to know. I mean, the amount of detail is remarkable. It's a roadmap yeah, finding an agent and how to be smart in your strategy, how to have a strategy, what that strategy should be, do your due diligence. So I mean, go here and read this top to bottom and follow some of the links that she provides and you will just be so much smarter at the start of your process. So you will feel like you've done your homework and you don't have these moments where you panic because you feel like you don't know what's happening. I mean, she's done the hard work for you. Now go and take advantage of it.

Lisa Schmid: 20:32

You know what it is just thinking of All these resources that we're looking at and all the ones that I found, they're all writers doing it. Yes.

Lisa Schmid: 20:38

These are all your fellow writers putting together these resources for you and, just like the podcast, we're doing this it's because we love what we do and we want to help other writers and it is a really good community when you think about it, like how much everybody wants you to succeed. That is the underlying theme of, I think, the kid-like community is that people want you to succeed and they don't want you to make the mistakes that maybe they did or they've already done the work. So you know, learn from them. Just as I've looked at all these different resources, I've just been amazed at how much work and time and effort people put into creating these documents.

Beth McMullen: 21:18

Yeah, I mean, it's all out there. You just have to put aside some time to go through it and you will be so much smarter at the beginning than certainly I was and Lisa was, and like, why not? Why not take advantage that the work is done for you?

Lisa Schmid: 21:34

So there's a couple other things I wanted to list. There is a monster list of picture book agents and this is put together by Heather Eris Bernal and it's a huge list of like all the different agencies. It doesn't list it by agent but it does show the agency so that you can go on there, look at the agents, do some research, see if one's a good fit for you. So that's a good place to start. There's also a manuscript, wishlistcom, mswlcom. That's where all the agents post what they're looking for and you can go on and do your research there as well.

Beth McMullen: 22:11

That is really awesome because I'm thinking about something that Caitlin Sanchez said in our last episode. If you missed that, we had agent Caitlin Sanchez who represents picture book authors and is a rising star in the Kiddlick community. She said that an important thing to keep in mind is can you find a connection to the agent that you're querying? That makes that agent take a second look at your work and maybe it's the wish list. Maybe you see someone who is looking for exactly what you have written. There's a little connection. So you're looking for all these little ways to get your manuscript out of the slush pile, so I think definitely worth checking that one out.

Lisa Schmid: 22:58

What I love about that site is they always list, like, what their favorite books were or what their favorite shows are, so you can kind of get an idea of who this person is and if they're a good fit for you. They really they spell it out what they're looking for and what they love. Already I use that when I was queering and that's actually where I found Leslie. So, yeah, so take advantage of that, okay, so there are also a couple other things that there are, two more contests that I want to highlight. One is there's one coming up and I think it's February 22nd. So if you have a Polish manuscript ready, and and maybe two or three, as we've talked about, like, if you are going to start queering, you should have at least three Polish manuscripts ready to go.

Lisa Schmid: 23:45

So think about that if you're going to dive in and do one of these pitch parties. So pitch parties are on Twitter and you basically go and pitch your book picture story idea on Twitter and it's one day. It's the one that's coming up for the PD pitch party is February 22nd. You can pitch more than one book, but you can only pitch it twice in one day, so like once in the morning and once in the evening and you kind of switch up your pitch and agents and editors can go on and like it and if they do like it then that means you can sub to them.

Lisa Schmid: 24:21

So it's a really fun way to get your work out there to editors and it's like no pressure, just throw it out there and it's like just be dating. It is me dating. That is totally it. That is totally what it is. It's be dating. And I actually got my book deal for Ali Oxy and the Ghost from a pitch party. I did I think it was Kid Lit Pit and I had pitched it and I got one like and it was from my editor.

Beth McMullen: 24:48

You see, lisa is the walk in the walk talking the talk author here, because she's used all of these, and successfully. So if she can do it, you can do it. It's totally worth it. I think you just with Twitter, of course, you're limited in the words that you're allowed to use, so you better spend a little time between now and February 22nd nailing your pitch, making sure that your little what is it? 140 characters or whatever? Twitter is now X Twitter, blah, blah, blah, whatever it is. Just make sure that you have taken maximum advantage of the words that you're allowed to use.

Lisa Schmid: 25:27

And another thing that I just I want to add on to that is I had a friend one time who's like I don't want to do the pitch party because I'm afraid somebody's going to steal my idea. And I just said, ok, that you need to stop right there because nobody can steal your idea. Like it's. You know, what you write is what you write. Nobody else can write that story the way you do. So please don't worry about that. Like, put yourself out there. Nobody's going to steal your concept or your idea. And I don't. I hate to say this, but it's not. It's probably not that like I mean, I'm sure it's original, but all stories are so, you know, from the same kind of little nugget.

Beth McMullen: 26:06

When I first signed with my agent, one of the first things she said to me is there are no original ideas, there are just fresh takes on old ideas. So you know we hate to burst your bubble, but you're not that unique, so do your best pitch and put it out there and cross your fingers. Maybe something really really good comes from it.

Lisa Schmid: 26:28

Yes, do it, put yourself out there. I think that's the theme of this. It totally is totally is. So. The last one that I really love is there is a PB party and you submit your Polish manuscript and there's a panel of judges and they select 30 winners and then those 30 winners are posted on the website and agents I think it's posted on the website and agents and editors read the selected winners and make requests.

Beth McMullen: 26:59

So is this a website or is this a social media one?

Lisa Schmid: 27:01

It's a website. Okay yeah, we'll have.

Beth McMullen: 27:04

It Okay, so that will be in our podcast notes too, so you can find it.

Lisa Schmid: 27:07

Yeah, so there's so many opportunities to succeed and learn in the picture book community.

Beth McMullen: 27:13

It's amazing, and every single one of these gives you valuable feedback. So, for instance, you do your Twitter pitch and you think it's really great and nobody cares. Okay, so you got to tweak that. You got to tweak that pitch because it's not. It's not landing. How do you make it better? It's all this feedback that we really need and want to make our work stronger. So I think all of these things are worth digging into if you're just starting out on this journey or if you've been on it for a little while.

Lisa Schmid: 27:43

Really, valuable Absolutely, and we are rooting for you. We want you to succeed.

Beth McMullen: 27:48

We are and we want you to tell us what's happening. So you know, go on one of our socials and tell us where you're at and how it's going. So that is it for today's episode. Please remember, we have a rad new website writerswithwrinklesnet. Go and visit. Find out how to support the show by subscribing, following and recommending. We've been doing really well lately. We want to keep up the momentum, so please bring your fellow aspiring writers writers in the trenches into the fold and have them sign up and follow the show. Next week, we have writer, game designer and producer Andrew Oshun coming into chat with us, and we're excited to talk to him about the intersection of writing and gaming. Gaming is huge, so I feel like this is a topic that we really need to get some intel on. So please join us for that and until then, our lovely listeners, happy reading, writing and listening. Bye, Lisa.

Lisa Schmid: 28:53

Bye Beth, bye guys.