The 17-minute pep talk you NEED right now!

Season 3, Episode 13 - Embracing Rejection and Failure in Your Writing Journey

 Hosts: Beth McMullen and Lisa Schmid

 Episode Theme: Navigating Failure and Rejection in Writing

 Key Discussion Points:

1. Personal Experience with Rejection:

   - Shared a recent rejection of their Cat’s Rule picture book.

   - Importance of closure in rejections, even without feedback.

2. Interpreting Rejection:

   - Sometimes, rejections hide internal conflicts within publishing companies.

   - Creating narratives around rejections can be a coping mechanism.

3. Detaching Emotion from Rejection:

   - Lisa's approach: Rejection is not personal; it's part of the writer's journey.

   - The literary world's competitiveness requires resilience.

 4. Strategies for Handling Rejection:

   - Reframe Rejection: It's not a measure of your worth as a writer or person.

   - Feedback is Gold: Use any feedback from rejections to improve.

   - Query in Batches: Small batches of queries can help identify and fix issues faster.

   - Celebrate Small Wins: Finishing a manuscript is a significant achievement.

5. Learning from Rejection:

   - Every rejection is an opportunity to grow and refine your craft.

   - Success stories are often built on numerous rejections.

6. Building a Support Network:

   - Importance of having a community that understands and supports you.

   - Sharing rejections and victories helps build resilience.

7. Staying in the Game:

   - Writing is an endurance game; persistence is key.

   - The journey is as important as the destination.

Conclusion:

- Embrace rejection as a step towards growth.

- Keep writing, submitting, and believing in your journey.

Next Episode Teaser:

- Discussion with Lisa Riddiough on rhyming picture books.

 Call to Action:

- Support the show by subscribing, following, and recommending.

Transcript

Beth McMullen: 0:30

Hi friends, I'm Beth McMullen and I'm Lisa Schmid and we're the co-hosts of Writers with Wrinkles. This is season three, episode 13, and today we're talking about the only thing that is inevitable in your writing career and that is failure and rejection. It is the only thing you can hang your hat on. It's absolutely going to happen. In fact, the reason that we're talking about it today is because it just happened to us with our cat's role picture book Happy. But actually, as rejections go, I want to say that this one at least, they sent us a rejection, because I know that some companies now feel so inundated with submissions that they can't even send you a rejection. So it was nice to close the loop on that. It did not provide any specific feedback. Sometimes you'll get a rejection and it will actually have feedback about what the editor or whoever was reading it didn't like. This one was just kind of a mass generalization like thank you, no, thank you. I was reading between the lines. What did you see between the lines?

Beth McMullen: 1:46

We love this and then somebody didn't want it in the company. I don't know you were making up a scenario to go with our rejection.

Lisa Schmid: 1:53

I think that's healthy. I was just saying this. I just did an interview a few minutes ago where I'm at a point I just don't take rejections personally, I just take my ego out of it and I just know that there's so many brilliant writers out there. It is what it is. It's just part of being there.

Beth McMullen: 2:09

It's part of being in the space. It's interesting that you say that, because we pulled together a few little tips on how to take rejection and deal with it and not let it derail you. The first one is exactly what you're just saying. You got to reframe the rejection. It's not a reflection of your worth as a writer or human being. It's not personal. I think if you take it personally, then it really eats away at you and it can make it so that you don't want to do this anymore. That's not the point of rejection. It could have been a timing issue. It can be a mismatch with the publisher. It could be that they already have a book like that on their catalog. For whatever season it is that you're pitching yours, it's important to reframe it and potentially use the rejection to refine what you're working on and maybe adjust to your targeting so you find the right audience. There's a way to use rejection to be motivating rather than debilitating.

Lisa Schmid: 3:19

That's a good way to wrap up that little portion. It's true, I need some. I've ever got when I was like, okay, thank you next. That's how I've been my attitude, thank you next, let's just keep going. That served me well. I encourage all our listeners to just take that kind of attitude. It's like, okay, thank you, I'm moving on. What can I work on? How can I make myself a better writer and maybe get a yes on the next one? Look forward, not back.

Lisa Schmid: 3:52

Exactly, I think when you have those, those are excellent opportunities to learn from your failure. Did you get specific feedback? Was there anything there that can help you improve your story? If not, analyze the work itself with the pacing off, the characters underdeveloped, learn from the mistakes and make your next piece stronger. I always recommend or I always suggest doing queries in small batches, maybe of like five or so, so that if you get five rejections or five dead silence, nothing's coming back like it's chirping in your ear. There's something wrong. Use that opportunity to continue working on that story and making it better. Just because you failed this time doesn't mean it's going to continue failing. You just got to find the right spot and make sure it's the best piece that can possibly be, if you get feedback.

Beth McMullen: 4:47

Somebody on the other end has spent time and energy crafting that feedback for you to use and it would be insane not to consider it. Even if it ends up being something that you don't used to make changes, you've got to think about it and consider it and maybe use it, because somebody on the other end liked your stuff enough to feel like they wanted to contribute to the next iteration of it. My agent told me this funny story once. This was a bunch of years ago and she had gotten a submission from this guy and you know some kind of adult fiction I forget what the details were and she read it and she sent him back some suggestions, as in. You know, these are a few things that I would try to improve Now.

Beth McMullen: 5:44

She didn't make him an offer. She wasn't going to take him as a client, but she was going to give him valuable time and energy of her own to help him improve his product. You know his writing and he wrote back to her a rebuttal, arguing every single point that she had made and telling her that she was wrong. Okay, listeners, never, ever, ever do that Like. You can pass on the suggestions, but don't ever find yourself in an argument with an agent or an editor about suggestions. I was so blown away because that is something I would never. It would never occur to me to do that.

Lisa Schmid: 6:32

I know Well and I've seen people post on Twitter where they're offended by an agent's comments like that they came back with feedback and they didn't agree with that and they even posted it and I'm just thinking, oh my god, this agent just like gave you so much good feedback and you're like looking a gift horse in the mouth and like touching it.

Beth McMullen: 6:55

Exactly, which is directly linked to our next little tip, which is that rejection is avidable. You have got to develop a thick skin, so don't see an agent rejecting you and giving you specific feedback on how to improve as negative. See it as a positive. They cared enough to spend their time and energy giving you their feedback, so take it, be grateful for it. It's going to make your manuscript stronger and maybe on the next round you land your dream agent, dream publisher. Whatever Successful authors face, countless rejections.

Beth McMullen: 7:37

It's just part of the process. So, instead of focusing on that, think about the journey of writing and not just the destination. The journey is going to improve your writing. It's going to make your story better. It's going to get you closer to your destination. But you have to lean into that journey, otherwise your ultimate product is not going to be great and you're going to be a hot mess. You're going to be miserable. So build resilience. Think about the ideas behind growth mindset and how you can frame the situation in a way that's going to contribute to a positive experience and a positive result.

Lisa Schmid: 8:18

Absolutely, and I do. I know it's discouraging to get the rejections, but any time I got those, I just thought you know what? I'm in the game. I'm in the game Like it's, I'm playing and I'm here and I'm present. I literally just had this conversation with my son the other day. It was about him doing homework, and so I said it's not about the grade, it's about the work that takes to get there. And this is exactly what I told them. I'm not a better writer than the next person, or my idea is not greater than anybody else's, but to succeed, you just you gotta stay in the game and you gotta be resilient and you can't let the little punches like knock you down. You just gotta keep going and you gotta do the work and you gotta do these, take steps, and then you'll eventually get there.

Beth McMullen: 9:06

I mean think about it. In order to get rejected, you have to have completed a manuscript, which puts you way out ahead of most people who say I wanna write a book. You know 99% of those people never gonna do it, but you've sent your stuff to an agent, which means you actually finished the book. Is it perfect? No, is it done? Yes, so you have something to show. So I think, celebrating those wins right Along the way that you finished the book, you have a draft to work on, you're sending it out. Like you said, you're in the game. I think that's huge to keep in mind.

Lisa Schmid: 9:47

Yeah, anytime you get those, those notes that come in the email and you feel distraught or sad, you know, be sad for a second and then brush it off. It is sometimes an embers game, you know. You have to keep digging away until you find that person that well is in love with your work and you eventually will, and that's such a great place to finally end up. I just did an interview with somebody that was interviewing me and she had just gotten the call and we went through. You know what she was going through and that moment for her and it's very exciting, you know.

Lisa Schmid: 10:20

I think it's a stunning moment where you're just like I just got the call, and I think you know, when I got the call, I of course called you and said I got the call, but she had a million notes along the way, like we all did, and so you're in exactly the same spot. We all were at one time and I think that's the way to think about it. It's like every author, every book that you see out there the million rejections and notes that they get along the way to getting published is countless, like we've all. I don't even know how many rejections I've got. I never. I was never that one to count them, but there was a lot, so my first book that I wrote that never saw the light of day, never got published.

Beth McMullen: 11:03

I sent it out to oh my gosh, so many, so many agents and that you know it was long enough ago that they would send you a piece of paper for your rejection. In fact, they would ask you in your sample of your manuscript to include a self-addressed stamp envelope so that you were paying for them to send you the rejection. I always really loved that, like okay, I just paid you know however much the cost of a stamp for you to kick me in the teeth. That's awesome. Anyway, I saved them all and they were like literally scraps of paper because they wouldn't even give you a full sheet of paper. It was like a piece of paper kind of chopped awkwardly into thirds and it was like a photocopy of the rejection and it was just like a paragraph of you know stock language saying thanks, no, thanks, and I kept them all in a big envelope and they were like 50.

Beth McMullen: 12:05

And when I first started writing for adults and I would go out and do you know book talks and whatever, I would take them with me and I just dump them out, like so people could see. You know every single one of these was a rejection and that was just part of the process. That was that step that I was taking. I had to get over that situation of complete rejection for that book and I had to get to the point where I had to decide am I going to quit, because obviously I suck at this, or am I going to say, okay, I suck at this now, maybe later I'm going to get better?

Lisa Schmid: 12:43

Obviously, I kept going, but it's like a pretty vivid illustration of what you have to climb over if you want to get to where you're going Very similar story that was at the conference and there is I can't remember it was a keynote speaker, so she's clearly somebody who is very successful and she was talking about rejections and she had like a scroll. They took the end of the scroll and they took it from the stage and unraveled it. Like there was this long, like you know, line of rejection letters that she had taped together and it stretched all the way down the audience. It was a huge auditorium, like down the front center aisle and like out the door, and it was a perfect illustration of like how many rejections it took her to get to her first. Yes, and so if you're like 10 rejections in, even like 50, you know it's okay. I always remember that and it really stuck with me. It's pretty vivid, it is. It was very vivid and I think you were actually at that conference with me.

Beth McMullen: 13:50

I was. I don't remember who it was, but I remember thinking, wow, this is a really clever way of illustrating your point. I mean cause it was like the red carpet. It was like a red carpet of rejections.

Lisa Schmid: 14:01

Yes, that was it. It was the red carpet of doom. It really was.

Beth McMullen: 14:06

It's like so rough, but it was a good way to look at it. One other thing to remember is that you're not the only one obviously going through this. Tons of people are writing, tons of people are submitting and tons of people are getting rejected all the time. So find yourself other writers who understand your struggle, because the non-writers in your life they can understand, but they're not going to feel it in the same way that somebody who is kind of in the trenches with you will. So you know, find a writing community, online or in person. Share your victories, share your successes, show your rejections, and that is a network that will be supportive of you. When you do get that, yes, and you do end up getting a book on the shelves, those are people who are going to be in your corner, and you will be in their corner likewise. So find that community, use that community and don't quit. Right, we're not going to quit.

Lisa Schmid: 15:09

No, not at all. It's worth the wait. It's worth the fight. You'll find the way. You just got to keep plugging away at it.

Beth McMullen: 15:15

I honestly think it's a endurance game. Yeah, it's setting your sights on the long-term goals, that you're going to stay in this for as long as it takes you to achieve what you want to achieve, and that can take a long time. There's no guarantee that it happens quickly, but this is our pep talk episode, so whenever you're feeling like, hey, I don't want to do this anymore, it sucks, then you just come back and you just flag this episode and you come back and you listen and then you get back on the horse and you keep riding right.

Lisa Schmid: 15:52

Exactly, and that's the thing when I'm feeling bummed out about something or I've had a rough day and the sub trenches, or even when I was doing querying, I would always call Beth and wine. I'm good for it. She was kind of my go to and it's good to have that person that you go and you wine to and you get it all out and then you, you know they're going to give you a pop talk and they're going to get you back in the game and I need that person like. That person needs to be a writer. They need to understand what you're going through, because if somebody isn't in the publishing game, if they're not a writer and they're not trying to do this, they will never understand, because we're all such over emotional creatures.

Beth McMullen: 16:31

Right, that's true, it's true, it's. It's funny, it's the truth, that's just the way it is.

Lisa Schmid: 16:40

I feel like I'm in a constant, like a circle of pep talks. You know, it's like one day it's me down, the next day it's you know, somebody else down, and it's. It's almost like you hit like record and then play back. It's like, well, your yes is on its way, it's. You know it's coming for you. It's just like we're all like doing that. It's like the circle of life. In writing.

Beth McMullen: 17:01

It seriously is it's your turn eventually. Sometimes it's not your turn. Sometimes it is your turn. That is part of it. So keep all of these things in mind as you travel your writing submission journey and always try to face forward and not look back and overanalyze too much the things that you feel have gone sideways. It takes a lot of energy, it's not productive. So that is it for today's pep talk. I hope it helped you iron out some of the wrinkles and, listeners, please remember to visit writerswithwrinklesnet and find out how to support the show by subscribing, following and recommending, and join us next week for episode 13, where we're talking to Lisa Rideo, who is big into rhyming picture books and is going to have all sorts of stuff that we need to know for us. Until then, happy reading, writing and listening. Bye Lisa, bye guys.