Writers With Wrinkles
Authors Beth McMullen and Lisa Schmid iron out the wrinkles in writing, publishing, and everything in between . . . One podcast at a time.
Writers With Wrinkles is the go-to podcast for aspiring authors, and those in the trenches, who want to successfully publish a novel...or ten! Join us each week as we dive deep into writing and the publishing industry, providing expert interviews, insightful discussions, and practical tips. With our engaging and informative format, you'll get the guidance you need to navigate the complex world of publishing. Start your journey today!
Visit www.WritersWithWrinkles.net for more info.
Writers With Wrinkles
ENCORE: Insider Insights with Editor Sara Schonfeld
ENCORE EDITION!
(PLEASE NOTE: All comments and opinions in this podcast are strictly Sara's own.)
In the latest episode of Writers with Wrinkles, we're thrilled to host Sara Schonfeld, an editor at HarperCollins, specializing in middle grade and YA literature.
Our discussion spans the joys and challenges of editing, insights into the acquisitions process, and invaluable advice for writers on submissions, social media presence, and the evolving landscape of genre blending in literature. Sara's passion for nurturing authors and her editorial expertise shine through, offering a treasure trove of wisdom for both aspiring and seasoned writers.
In This Episode:
1. Sara's Entry into Publishing: Discover Sara's intriguing start in the publishing industry through a serendipitous project with Dr. Seuss's The Grinch Mad Libs.
2. Editorial Philosophy: Gain insight into Sara's approach to editing, emphasizing the importance of enhancing the author's vision while keeping the reader in mind.
3. Juggling Editorial Projects: Understand the complexity and organization behind managing multiple books at various stages of publication.
4. The Submission Standouts: Learn what makes a manuscript shine in the crowded publishing landscape, including the significance of genre knowledge and the infusion of personal voice.
5. Behind the Acquisitions Veil: Get a rare peek into the acquisitions process, demystifying what happens behind the scenes and how decisions are made.
6. Editing Process Explained: Delve into the detailed and iterative process of editing, from big-picture feedback to line edits, and the collaborative nature of bringing a book to fruition.
7. Social Media for Writers: Hear Sara's thoughts on the role of social media in a writer's career and the importance of authenticity.
8. Genre Blending and Wishlist: Discover Sara's enthusiasm for genre-blended manuscripts, especially those that merge speculative elements with rom-com vibes.
Highlights:
- Advice for Aspiring Authors: Practical tips on standing out in submissions, including the critical role of competitive titles and authentic storytelling.
- Acquisitions Deep Dive: An insider's view on how books are selected for publication and the collective excitement that drives editorial meetings.
- The Future of Genres: Sara's anticipation for innovative genre blends and her call for submissions that push creative boundaries.
Website: https://www.saraschonfeldbooks.com/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/SaraSchon
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Hi everyone. While Lisa and I are off doing other things for the next few weeks, we are taking the opportunity to share some of our favorite episodes with you again. This one with editor Sarah Schoenfeld is just brilliant. Have a listen and you'll see what I mean. Here we go. Hi friends, I'm Beth McMullen and I'm Lisa Schmid, and we're the co-hosts of Writers with Wrinkles. This is season three, episode 12. And today we are so excited to welcome Sarah Schoenfeld to the show. Sarah is an editor at Harper, working on middle grade and YA. As an author herself, Sarah has the editorial style that is all about expressing the author's intentions and helping readers understand and access that vision. When she's not reading, she loves watching anything Marvel, kickboxing or baking. So welcome, Sarah. We're so happy to have you here today.
Sara Schonfeld:Thank you, I'm excited to be here.
Beth McMullen:So I wanted to ask you something just really quickly. I saw on your website that you did a Dr Seuss's the Grinch Mad Libs.
Sara Schonfeld:I did in another life, yeah, so what is?
Beth McMullen:that like I mean. I love those. I did them all the time with my kids when they were little. I'm just curious how that that kind of landed in your lap.
Sara Schonfeld:That is actually a wonderful segue into how I got started in publishing, which was at Penguin Random House at the time and the imprint was called Grosset and Dunlap and I actually ended up working on the team that did primarily licensing. So you'll see, I've had experience writing some licensed, eight by eights leveled readers and even ended up in the Mad Libs game, and that one was such an interesting combination of sheer luck and coincidence and circumstance. I had been covering for the Mad Libs imprint and I was unofficially the Mad Libs editor for a few months and this project came across our desks. But the studio involved was actually very secretive about it and they needed someone to be boots on the ground in California to read the script physically because they weren't comfortable sending it out digitally. And I happened to be in California visiting my parents and so I got kind of whisked away to Illumination Entertainment Studios, got to go into their offices and read the script and they actually took my notes away and they said you know, we have to review these to make sure it doesn't include any spoilers. Said you know, we have to review these to make sure it doesn't include any spoilers. And then they sent me the redacted version, which was fascinating to me as someone who grew up reading Dr Seuss and had been familiar with the story, and the movie, of course was so charming I don't know if you guys have seen it and the Mad Libs were such a joy to write.
Sara Schonfeld:It's kind of like writing in a different language and having to write a code. You can't just write it and pull words out. You have to write intentionally towards the blanks, in the same way that you would write a joke, and I think that holds for a lot of writing experience. If you've written a picture book, you also know this process of needing an ending. That's inevitable but unexpected, and for Mad Libs you have to do that essentially every other sentence, and it is such a fun challenge. If you have an opportunity to write a Mad Libs or to do a Mad Libs or speak with someone who has written one, I highly recommend it. It is just so much fun.
Beth McMullen:That is fascinating. That is so fast Like these are the things that you just never know are going on behind the scenes.
Sara Schonfeld:I always say, like I will find myself, I will find myself in a situation and that is one of my talents and I will look around and I will say you know, I wonder how I got here. It's like that freeze frame, like bet, you're wondering how I ended up here, and I love it. You know that's one of the joys about publishing you never know what your day is going to be like. You could be handling phone calls from an author and talking about the ending of a mystery, or you could be figuring out the secret ending of the Grinch movie. You just never know.
Beth McMullen:That is. I love that. I'm so glad I asked that question because that is fascinating.
Lisa Schmid:How many books are you juggling at any given time when you're editing?
Sara Schonfeld:Sure. So most editors will work towards a certain title count per year, with things that are shifting around. You know, my grasp of where my titles are is something that I need to be in charge of at all times. In a given year, I would say, the average editor has somewhere between five and 15 books, depending on their role and their seniority, and then at any given time, we might be working on maybe two or three years at a time, depending again on that lead time. So picture books obviously take longer.
Sara Schonfeld:So we will be looking out further for YA and middle grade. It might be closer to a year to two years. So at any given moment I might be thinking about, you know, 20 or 30 books and having to keep tabs on them, which is an amazing process, and this is why we have an entire department called Managing Editorial. So shout out to all those wonderful editors there who are helping us essentially stay on track and project managing the editors. I have so much respect for them and they are the ones who really make sure the books happen. Certainly, as editors, we love to steer the ship, but they are the ones who are giving us directions. So we are so grateful for them and all the hard work that they do.
Beth McMullen:Wow, that is remarkable. That's a lot of stuff to keep in your head, just discrete stories and not getting them crisscrossed in your mind.
Sara Schonfeld:I have a lot of grids, I have a lot of charts, everything's color-coded, and then I am relying quite a bit on my colleagues.
Lisa Schmid:When you think about it. And I just went through the editorial process and I was going through the editorial process and I was stressed out. And then I was going through the editorial process and I was stressed out and then I was just thinking about my editor thinking, oh my God, she's got probably 10 projects she's working on right now and I'm just one person in her universe. Do you know what I mean? And so sometimes as the writer, you kind of get so you're in this little myopic bubble where you're just thinking about yourself and you just kind of forget, like she's probably got a bunch of other authors she's dealing with, and so it's good to hear that from an editor's perspective, what's going on behind there?
Sara Schonfeld:Yeah, and I mean I hope that's also encouraging in the sense that while as an author it's very easy to obsess over details in your book, please know that your editor is very much thinking big picture, and we're also thinking bigger than big picture for just your book, but also for what the whole season or the whole year looks like, and very much we do have our eyes on how do we make your book shine the most.
Sara Schonfeld:So I think of this as like a hopeful thing. You know, like the universe doesn't care if you brush your hair that morning or if you forget. It's kind of the same deal with your manuscript. Your editor is going to know about the big things that matter and we're going to be there as a resource. But hopefully that helps you feel a little calmer about the things that might be worrying you, because while it can feel like every single thing, especially for a debut, is the life or death of your book, oftentimes it's not, and if you have concerns, definitely raise them to your editor. But you know we're really here as kind of like it's okay, like we're going to hold your hand through this process and you really don't need to worry about a lot of it. It feels like therapy.
Lisa Schmid:It does. I had like just like a last minute thing where we had done the final pass pages and I was like, no, that's fine. And then I had a panic about it and I'm like, wait, no, no, it's not fine, it's not fine. She had to like calm me down. I'm like, okay, I'm sorry, it's like I just had a moment. We're all good now, but it just is. You just you get like so caught up and then like hearing you you speak about what you're doing behind the scenes. It's just like we're like over here freaking out about this and you're managing all of us.
Sara Schonfeld:Again, we are there definitely as a gut check of if something is actually a crisis, but hopefully this is reassuring that very few things you know changing a word here, changing a line there very few things are actually a crisis.
Lisa Schmid:So the goal is obviously for writers to end up with you as their editor. So what are some of the best things an author can do to make their submissions stand out in this current climate? Because it feels like it's kind of the Wild West out there.
Sara Schonfeld:Yeah, we're definitely in an interesting moment for the industry and I think we're figuring out how to stand out in a very crowded marketplace, how to stand out as readers are changing, discoverability is changing. Even things like where people buy their books might be changing or how they consume their books. I think you'll hear a lot of editors say that we're looking for something that's both fresh and familiar, and I think readers can do two concrete things to fill both those categories. The familiar one is perhaps the easiest and I'm sure many people know this. The number one thing you can do is read, especially in your category. When we talk about comps or competitive titles in the industry, we really rely on those quite a bit through the process. So the more that you know your comps and the more that you know what's out there, the more that you're really going to succeed as an author. So this is about finding books that will have the same audience as the book that you're writing. Finding what you love about your book and what other books also have that same element is really going to give you so much through the querying process about who to query, how to query them, how to position your book. It's going to also help editors. You know when we get a book, we're going to look at the comps as well, for things like cover design and answering questions during the editorial process. So making sure to read widely and fall in love with books.
Sara Schonfeld:I always recommend that readers focus on finding books that they love. It's very easy to read as a critic, and I think a lot of times we forget that books should be serving us as inspiration positively, and not just that kind of negative, jealous part of you that says, well, I can do this better. Everyone can do everything differently and, as an editor, I am not here to show up and say what's better or worse. I'm not making a quality assessment. I am trying to find something that makes me feel, and I think if you write from inspiration and positivity, you can also create a book that makes people feel, which brings me to the second thing you can do, about finding something fresh, which is bringing your own voice to something, and I like to work with authors. I call it the heart of the story. I usually ask authors you know, what did you set out to write? What do you want audiences to feel and what inspired you within yourself that you can get onto the page and I think really being true to that inspiration and that feeling of joy and love and excitement about your project is going to come through and it really does shine through.
Sara Schonfeld:I wish there were a way that I could bring a secret microphone into our meetings, our editorial meetings.
Sara Schonfeld:We just had one yesterday and we were sitting in a room with about 10 people and everyone was just gushing about the read of something, about how it drew them along, how they were pulled in, how they were just obsessed with the writing and the characters and just so excited about it. And I hope you realize that, again, we're never making an assessment of quality. The worst thing that happens in those meetings is someone says like, oh, it didn't pull me in, I wasn't really excited about it. And then on the flip side, and generally this is what happens we are ready to go to war for these books, we are hyping each other up and we are just getting excited. We are batting around different comps, ideas, we are already envisioning the cover and we are just getting so excited about it. So if there are two things that you can do as a writer to really help an editor feel connection, again it's focusing on reading and then focusing on finding that kernel of yourself in the story, that heart of the story that you really want to bring forward.
Lisa Schmid:Oh my God, that's like the best answer ever.
Beth McMullen:No, I already can tell that people are going to be swooning for this, our listeners, because it's concrete, right? These are things that you can actually think about, not in the abstract, but concretely about your own work, and we preach on this show all the time that you need to read, read, read, read. That's so important.
Sara Schonfeld:It's so important.
Beth McMullen:Yeah, and I think people sometimes you know everyone's busy. You have limited time in your day. People have so many responsibilities and there's so many things drawing your attention nowadays with social media and your phone and videos. But you really do have to commit to that or you're going to be, you know, hampering your ability to get anywhere.
Sara Schonfeld:And I've heard some authors say that they, you know comps can be a double-edged sword and you certainly don't have to read as you're writing. I don't mean to tell people like get multiple voices in your head, but certainly I really recommend it during idea generation, kind of before you put pen to paper or fingers to keyboard, and then certainly as you're thinking about querying and maybe as you're waiting for some beta reads to come in, so comps can serve you at any point in the process. But I really do recommend read, read as much as you can.
Beth McMullen:So the next thing we wanted to ask you about is the acquisition process, which most authors feel is a little bit of a mystery, mostly because, as the author, we're not really involved at all. It's really what's happening in the publishing side, and usually that information is coming through your agent. So can you give us a little peek behind the scenes? What's going on there? What can make or break a deal, what are the steps involved? Just so that people can kind of get their heads around what, when people say it's in the acquisitions process, what that means?
Sara Schonfeld:Yeah, well, acquisitions might be a bit of a mystery because it does vary a lot from house to house. You know, I've worked at a couple places and I can say that it has been very different house to house, even imprint to imprint, so everyone does it a little bit differently. I would say the main stages. I like to think of them as hurdles, which hopefully is an empowering message of people jumping over the hurdle is an empowering message of people jumping over the hurdle. But for me, as an editor, the first step is always the read. So I'm going to read it myself and fall head over heels in love with it. I have had this happen where I got a submission in the evening and I picked it up and then I looked up and it was dark outside and I didn't know what had happened and I did, at the time, text my boss and she told me to take a deep breath and relax, but I was just so excited about that book and ended up acquiring it. So that was a very good feeling, but yeah, so the first step, of course, is to get the editor on board. A lot of houses will then have something of. They call it different things. They might call it a team meeting, they might call it editorial meeting, they might call it a team meeting, they might call it editorial meeting, they might call it something else entirely, but essentially it's a period when the editor gets reads from other people outside of. You know just themselves fit with our team, how it would fit with this editor's list and also where we see this book succeeding and how to position it. And then some houses will also have after that an acquisitions board, at which point you are meeting with not only editors but also people from other departments. So this is a chance for sales and marketing and publicity and design everyone to really weigh in and give their thoughts on the book. Not only again, it's not just an assessment of talent or skill as someone who gets so many beautiful books, it's really not a question of that. It's more about strategic thinking of what can we do for this book, are we the best house for this book? Am I the best editor for this book, and how can we really make it succeed? So generally, I would say many editors have between one and three of those different steps to go through, those hoops to jump through.
Sara Schonfeld:And when we say the acquisitions process to an agent. Sometimes we are intentionally a little bit vague because we don't want to tell anyone. You know like, cross your fingers again today because it's going to another meeting. To tell anyone you know like, cross your fingers again today because it's going to another meeting, that's. You know. We don't want to stress people out unnecessarily and I know how exciting it is.
Sara Schonfeld:I have gone through that process and I had a book of my own die on submission, because it, you know it got almost acquisitions and the editor left the company, which was heartbreaking. But you know, these things happen and acquisitions can feel a little bit fuzzy. One of the things I do love about where I am at Harper and the team that I have. We have just such an incredible team that I know once I go through and I do have an offer and I can hand that to the author, I know that they have so much support not only from me but also from my team and my colleagues in other departments, and I know that offer comes with the full support of HarperCollins and we are going to make this book shine.
Beth McMullen:That actually is a really good little view into it. Even just saying, okay, my book could be anywhere, my submission could be anywhere in this process is more comforting than feeling as if it is just a black hole and you have no clue.
Sara Schonfeld:You know, as an editor with hundreds of emails, I can say sometimes we are a little bit of a black hole, but yeah.
Lisa Schmid:So I was wondering how many people on the team actually read the book. Like when you go in to pitch it, does everybody on the team read it, or is it just? Are you kind of giving a you know reading like a synopsis on what the book's about and why you love it, or does everybody on the team end?
Sara Schonfeld:up reading the book. It really varies meeting to meeting and team to team. I have been on teams where it was, you know, everyone's dipping in and then reading a synopsis. I have been on teams where everyone is reading the whole book and it really depends on the specific room and the specific project, and I love to get reads. I also love to pitch books to people. So wherever I am, I'm going to adjust and do my best to champion this book. I think of myself as like a little knight on a little horse with a I don't have a sword a pen instead. Really, you really going to bat for these books? I love that image.
Lisa Schmid:How often do you actually pitch something and it doesn't go through? Has it happened quite a bit to you, or is it? And it's got to be heartbreaking when it happens.
Sara Schonfeld:Yeah, I think in my experience my team is incredibly helpful in determining what might be worth bringing to acquisitions versus not. And it can be heartbreaking to bring it to the team and it's these people that you have worked with and you respect their opinions and you just really want them to like it and see what you see in it. It's like you know, bringing a boyfriend home and your parents are like, oh nice, you really want them to fall in love and sometimes it just doesn't happen and it is heartbreaking and I always say the hardest part of my job is giving negative feedback that I don't agree with. So that might be the team saying no. That might be acquisitions saying no. That might be an unnamed reviewer who is very harsh saying no and saying that they don't like this book.
Sara Schonfeld:And rejection is part of the industry and it sucks and we all deal with it and I think you know agents and editors. We are unique in that we deal with it from many different directions, which is its own kind of heartbreaking. But yeah, please know that there are many times that I'm sending rejections and I am not crying at my desk, but you know I feel sad for it and upset that I can't say yes, it's hard.
Lisa Schmid:I don't even. I was like trying to think of something to say to that and it is like you go through so much, just like writers go through it. You know it's just, it's all part of the process, like you said, and I think we all feel it deeply, and it's also good to hear how much you go through it deeply on your end, Because as writers that are on sub or querying, it's a black hole and they just think. I think some people have images of people like rejecting this. No, we are not.
Sara Schonfeld:We are not cackling or lighting anything on fire. The one time that I did laugh while reading submissions, I did get through the slush pile back at Penguin when we were editorial assistants going through the slush pile. I did get through the slush pile back at Penguin when we were editorial assistants. Going through the slush pile I did get a letter that was written like cutouts from magazines clipped and it accused me of being in the Illuminati. It was like, dear editor, we know you're in the Illuminati. And I was like, ok, I'm ready. Oh, wow, that is. That is something else, not a lot of good times.
Lisa Schmid:Did it scare you, or were you just like, okay, this is crazy.
Sara Schonfeld:No, so it wasn't addressed to me specifically, which is part of the help. You know. It wasn't someone who knew who I was or was coming after me personally, but it was an oh moment of oh goodness.
Lisa Schmid:Well, now that we know what your acquisition process is, can you tell us about your editorial?
Sara Schonfeld:process. I always say editing is my favorite part of the job and if I just got to edit all day I would be a very, very happy editor, which is? It sounds silly, like what else am I doing? A lot of email, but editing is such a pleasure. It's something between reading and doing a puzzle, but then also, like you guys mentioned, a little bit of therapy, both for myself and for the characters.
Sara Schonfeld:I love to psychoanalyze a character, but I generally start, like many editors do, from big picture down to small. So I will do a series of rounds with my authors, often somewhere between, I would say, you know, four to six times reading a manuscript, and the goal is to start with a completely open mind and work on, you know, reacting. So I will do a report to start with. I will not be getting into line edits, I will not be fixing grammar and I'll mostly just be writing down questions as I read and gut reactions, not trying to judge, not trying to form a conclusion, but just saying okay, in this scene I really am missing the through line or what's propelling me, or I'm confused about who this character is and what they're doing, and maybe by the end of my read I've answered that question. But it might also be helpful to consider what a reader feels during that scene, and is that a constructive confusion? Is that a useful question to have at that stage? So usually I'll do one round. That's, you know, an assessment or a report or a letter, whatever you want to call it, and this can be, you know, 10 pages typed up of me. I tend to ramble, as you guys probably have noticed, and I like to give my authors lots to work with. So it's a lot of spitballing, it's a lot of okay, this character really confused me. Are they more like this? And I might reference another character or another character from a different piece of media, and then I'll say or are they maybe like this and how would that serve the story? Let's think of some ideas. Usually after that I'll have a call with the author and we will then start working on either another round for another assessment or down to line edits, and it'll depend somehow sometimes where the author is and how they're feeling. So sometimes after a first call, authors will say you know, you pointed out a lot of things that I'm worried about and I would like to make changes. So I'm going to do a heavy rewrite, in which case I'll say like cool, let's talk about that, let's think about how that'll work. And sometimes they'll say you know, I'm really feeling good about this, I'm just going to change a few chapters. So it really varies and depends.
Sara Schonfeld:I oftentimes, if it is something that I've acquired, I do like to kind of cover those big things before I acquire it, so that I'm not surprising anyone. I don't want to show up to a book and say let's rewrite the whole thing. I never want to do that. But oftentimes I am working on books that I didn't personally acquire either, because they're second books in a contract, they're part of a series, they come from another editor.
Sara Schonfeld:It's becoming more and more common for me to have books on my list that I didn't necessarily get the first read on, and in that case I do like to start with a lot of those questions and leave it open-ended for the author, and then, after doing maybe one or two rounds of those, I do like to start doing line edits.
Sara Schonfeld:So this does get to be a little bit more granular, and it can be things like this line of dialogue is not ringing true and doesn't sound kid-like to me yet, but it can also still be things like I'm really confused about why he would say this right now.
Sara Schonfeld:I just don't understand.
Sara Schonfeld:And sometimes those do pop up still in the line edit stage, and then after that, after we've gone back four or five, maybe six times, we will end up going to copy editing, in which case we will all take another look and then, after copy editing, we are getting into proof pages which are interiors that do look like a book, and then I'll probably see it another five or six times. At that point I'm not going to be clean reading it, because at that point I do have a very good memory of the book because I have read it many times. But you know, I do hope this is also a calming thing for authors, which is that the books that you see on shelves, that you're comparing yourselves to, have probably been edited somewhere in the range of 10 to 15 times by probably four or five people who are professional editors. So we're talking agents there are so many incredible editorial agents out there and then editors like myself, copy editors, proofreaders. So when we say, please don't compare your first draft to a final draft that's what we're talking about.
Beth McMullen:That is such a good point and I don't think people realize that because you are going to especially when you're looking for comps or you're reading in the genre that you want to write about, the bar is really high. Like you said, you've had a whole slew of professionals go through this with a fine tooth comb and now you see the product. If you were comparing yourself to one of their drafts, it might be different, but that is an excellent point that I think is missed a lot. Yeah, definitely.
Lisa Schmid:Yeah, I was in the drafting stage for a new story and I was telling Beth this the other day.
Sara Schonfeld:Yeah, definitely. No, I definitely get that. There are some books that I read as I was trying to write my latest work in progress and I was like this is so good, it makes me angry, just so mad. How did?
Lisa Schmid:they do this. I literally like closed it really softly and just shoved it away to the other side of the bed and I was like just don't look at it.
Sara Schonfeld:Sometimes you got to do that. Sometimes it is not the time to read.
Beth McMullen:Sometimes you got to do that. Sometimes it is not the time to read. So for authors who are new, or even for existing authors, I suppose, how important do you think it is for them to have a presence on social media? Is it critical to their career? Can you do without it? What are your thoughts on that? I know we hear a lot of noise about yes, you must have a platform and it must include social media or do something else. So what are your thoughts for your authors? What do you think is, how are they best?
Sara Schonfeld:served. We've done a lot of thinking about this. As publishers, we want to make sure that we are giving good advice in this realm, and I know there is a lot of noise out there. The one thing I would recommend that everyone try if you are becoming an author, if you are a debut, if you are self-publishing I would invest in an author website. I think that's definitely worth it to keep all of your information somewhere. You'll probably want to have a headshot, a bio, some sort of contact page and then a list of all your books. I think that is definitely worth investing in.
Sara Schonfeld:In terms of social media, my advice is to go with what feels natural to you, and that might be nothing. You know, my sister is an author and she's a very shy person and she said you know, I just I can't, I can't do it, and she didn't have to do it. That wasn't part of her natural author self. It wasn't authentic to who she is. She has a very cute dog and I tried to briefly convince her to make him a dog influencer and post pictures of the dog with the book, and it didn't work out. But I think people online can tell when something isn't authentic and it really isn't going to stick. Now, on the flip side, I just had an author recently have a viral video on Instagram. She had a reel and it reached about three and a half million views and it is going to help her book and I think she has become an incredible asset and she did a really great job. And it's a really funny reel and maybe a million of those views are just me, because I have read the book and it makes me giggle every time. So I think I would recommend that authors consider trying out one form of media that they like. For people who know me, they know that mine will be Twitter. I have tried out other things and it's just not for me. But try out social media. See what works for you, see what feels authentic and where you can be positive and uplifting, and social media can hurt you just as easily as it can help you. So definitely keep an eye on trying to remain authentic to yourself, but also very positive.
Sara Schonfeld:I try to think of Twitter. I use it as what's something funny that I would text my mom, you know, something that's going to be fit to print, hopefully, and something that will hopefully make someone laugh or smile or get to vent a little bit about my day and I think, hopefully, that is the sort of thing that you want to bring to social media. You know we're not ever going to be in an acquisitions room and go oh my gosh, they only have 13 followers. We can't acquire this book. I think of social media, at the end of the day, as a selling point and as an editor you know talking about me being this little mouseketeer on a horse it's part of my arsenal and it's another sword that I can whip out and say like, hey, check it out. They have like 5,000 followers on TikTok and they're really devoted. It can be a selling point but at the same time, if it's not true to who you are, I don't think it's going to be a useful use of your time.
Beth McMullen:That's a great way to frame it too. You know what what works for you, as opposed to trying to cover everything. I know Lisa has told this story in the past when she her first book was coming out, about how she was trying to do everything and it just became your full-time job and then you kind of lose yourself in it and it's hard to to manage and again you're losing some of that authenticity because you feel like you're forcing it.
Lisa Schmid:It can take over, well, and you're spinning out and you're trying to do too much, and I think, especially with debut authors, they just take on too much and it becomes so stressful and then they forget to write. The other thing I was just wondering, if you do know they have social media, does anybody kind of check out their social media to see, like, who they are and what they're posting, to make sure that they are not saying a bunch of negative stuff? Or one of the things I've always talked about, or we've always talked about, is like, just keep it positive, don't go down any dark holes, don't get involved with the you know the noise out there, because it just can be such a bad look. And so I was wondering if anybody ever checks those socials out to see what type of person they're potentially bringing on as an author, as an editor.
Sara Schonfeld:I do definitely a little bit of creeping and I think you know we're sharing this information during the different stages and I do think there might be other people who follow up here.
Sara Schonfeld:But at the end of the day, working with an author as an editor, it's a professional relationship just like any other job. Don't post something online that you're being very negative or being very insensitive or attacking other authors. I think you know we want to keep things positive and we want to make sure that this is someone that we want to work with. A book is a long process and it is a lot of handling sometimes disappointment, sometimes elation but we want to make sure we're working with someone that can handle a professional working relationship, and I think agents as well are definitely looking for that. So, yeah, I really recommend on social media, do your best to portray yourself as best you can and maybe my tweets are not the best example of this because I can be a little bit silly but certainly focusing on yourself and maybe not on others can also be a helpful rule of thumb.
Lisa Schmid:Your tweets make you so real, and so for me, I've thought gosh, I can hardly wait to see Sarah. You know I'm the weird girl that thinks we're already friends.
Sara Schonfeld:So you know, I've I've heard that before from authors and that's my favorite feedback. Every time my parents are like, oh, don't tweet that. Like, oh, like my dad will say something silly, and he's like, no, this cannot go on Twitter. And I always say like hey, I've had authors sign with me because they said I feel like I already know you, I know that you're not going to be intimidating, I'm not going to be judgmental. You guys know what my life is like. It is far from perfect. I embrace the weirdness. So if that's something that resonates with someone and I get to sign a book, you know it's all worth it.
Beth McMullen:It's a great example of what you were saying about being your authentic self and people. That resonates with people, and if you were, if you were out there doing this in anything other than that version of yourself, they would know.
Lisa Schmid:I'm rooting for you doing this in anything other than that version of yourself they would know, I'm rooting for you.
Sara Schonfeld:I'm like. I want her to get a dog.
Lisa Schmid:I want her to find a nice guy, but not for a while, because I'm having so much fun following her tweets and her dates. Didn't you just have somebody with gout the?
Sara Schonfeld:other day. Yeah, that was, oh my gosh, he was such an interesting character. He was like I was almost on the Bachelorette. Oh, okay, he's an interesting character, but no, I've had guys ask me. They say in your bio it says you only tweet about bad dates. What about the good ones? Why don't the good ones make it? And, honestly, I have drafts full of all the good dates and I wait. I never tweet about something the moment it happens. I think that's another good rule of thumb for social media Don't tweet in the heat of the moment. Give yourself some time to cool off and put in your drafts, and usually by the time I go around to tweet the really good date, the guy isn't in my life anymore and I'm like, oh, I'm going to tweet this and my followers are going to get so excited. And then I have to be like, oh wait, he ghosted me, sorry. So you're like the Taylor Swift of editing, thank you, I would love to be the Taylor Swift of editing.
Beth McMullen:That is the title of this episode. Right there, meet the Taylor Swift of editing.
Sara Schonfeld:Oh man, I don't. I don't know if I can live up to that.
Lisa Schmid:Oh my God, that's a big app. We're all. I'm assuming you're a Swifty, like who isn't a Swifty at this point?
Sara Schonfeld:She's so great. I want to be her when I grow up, which is I'm very short, so I can say that I think we're about the same age. So I can't quite grow up to be Taylor Swift, but maybe if I put stilts on, she's adorable. She is adorable. She's also such a good example of writing. I think she has done the advice that I keep saying, which is like finding that heart, that kernel of yourself, and putting it into your writing. She has done that so well, in such a way that you can't help, when you listen to her songs, feel. You feel what she's feeling, you remember feeling 22.
Beth McMullen:That is so true and that's why she's so. Everybody just loves her. Makes sense.
Sara Schonfeld:Such a smart writer, such a talented writer.
Lisa Schmid:I'm able to work her into almost every episode.
Beth McMullen:We do. We try to work her into all of our episodes because she's fun.
Sara Schonfeld:She is Sponsor us. Taylor Swift, you know.
Lisa Schmid:Okay, well, speaking about excited things that we're like totally into right now, what are you into right now, like, what book are you editing? Is there a project that you're really stoked about everyone getting to read, and what drew you to that book?
Sara Schonfeld:I have so many books that I am I keep saying I'm feral about them in the way that, you know, like a raccoon would kind of scream about something and there's so many books that I would love to talk about. In the interest of being fair, I will talk about the book that I was literally working on an hour before we started talking, which I think you guys will get a kick out of. It is Allie Malinenko's next book, Broken Dolls, which has been much buzzed about online. It is a book that I acquired, which was very exciting to me, and I think of it as it's quite near and dear to my heart because Allie was my first acquisition at HarperCollins and I got to work with her twice already and this will be our third project together and that is such a joy for me to get to work with a debut author and then continue to build them and kind of find our flow together as a team, because at the end of the day, we are a creative team.
Sara Schonfeld:Certainly you know it's her book, but I am the little cheerleader in the background helping her get that book across the finish line, and it has been such a pleasure to get to go back into her world and back into her writing. You know, over my career I have worked with many authors multiple times and every time I pick up another book I'm like, oh, like I just got to read Maureen Johnson's latest and say like, oh, my goodness, I'm so happy to be back in her incredibly hilarious and capable hands, and reading Ali's next book was much the same experience. So I am so excited for that book to get to readers, to get to Stephen King, you know, to get out there, to the people who are excited to read it.
Beth McMullen:We had her on the show a while ago. It was a really fun conversation. She's such an interesting person. She's great. And her books are fabulous.
Sara Schonfeld:Obviously we are fans. She's such an interesting person and her books are fabulous. Obviously we are fans. She's going to give me nightmares and every time I read one of her books I give her a stern talking to about how terrifying they are.
Beth McMullen:I like how she just goes for it. You know there's no sense of oh okay, they're children reading this book.
Sara Schonfeld:I think she's very right in that kids can handle a lot more than adults can handle in a lot of different areas. And the dolls in this book. I am usually okay with dolls. I used to clip dolls as a kid and now I'm like, no, thank you, I would never. Thankfully I don't have any in my apartment, but back at my parents' house I have a handful of porcelain dolls and I'm like can't look at those ever again.
Beth McMullen:So for all our listeners who are now madly in love with you, so for all our listeners who are now madly in love with you.
Sara Schonfeld:what is at the top of your wish list? What are you looking to acquire? I always hesitate to say one thing, because this is a lot like dating, in that people can ask what your type is and at the end of the day you're like I don't know, like a cute guy, I don't know. So I will say for my manuscript wish list one thing that I have loved having in my inbox and would love to see more of are genre blends. So everyone and their mother now probably knows about romanticy, the blending of romance and fantasy and the way that has become so popular. I think what a lot of people may not realize about the genre is it is truly a blending of the two, in that both are equally important to the plot line. It's not just a fantasy book with romance going on. It is very much both books at once and interwoven, threaded together in a very skillful manner. But I do think we're going to see even more blending happening in different genres.
Sara Schonfeld:I am not necessarily the best fit for high fantasy. I tend to prefer more grounded books that feel like they're part of our world and start more in our world before dipping into the fantasy. So I love a good book that eases me into it. I have greatly enjoyed working with several authors who are just so skilled at building worlds gradually. I think that's incredibly wonderful.
Sara Schonfeld:So on my end, I would love to see kind of the lighter version of Romanticy, which I would say is speculative rom-com. So instead of fantasy you're speculative, you're more grounded in our world, with maybe a pinch of magic or one or two elements that are maybe even sci-fi. And then you have rom-com instead of romance, so taking it to a lighter place where it's fun, it's silly. I love a good romantic comedy and I love books that are actually funny. I think we've seen a lot of books that tout themselves as rom-coms lately, that aren't necessarily laugh out loud funny, and I am so thrilled when I see something in my inbox that is actually hilarious. So, yeah, I would love to see more mashups that outside of speculative rom-com as well. So I have a murder mystery rom-com on my list. I do have a paranormal rom-com. You know, it's really fun to see those kind of genre blends evolve and I would love to see more of that it feels like paranormal is the hot ticket these days.
Sara Schonfeld:I mean I love it. I think it's such a lush ground to have a lot of fun and I think, especially in children's books, like that's what we want to do at the end of the day. Like certainly we can touch on very serious topics and certainly I love books and I work on many books that handle very serious things that are serious for kids and serious for adults but at the end of the day, I love books that feel propulsive and feel like an adventure and feel fun and entertaining. So yeah, I just love when something seems like it's pulled out of a mythology or pulled out of something that feels again familiar but fresh. I think it all comes back to that.
Beth McMullen:That is great to hear and good to know. I love what's happening in those spaces where stuff is getting mushed together, because it is as a reader. It's just fun. It just takes it to another level, so it's been great to watch that happen. So that wraps up our time with you, sarah. We've kept you for a very long time. We are so grateful for everything that you've shared with us today. I know that our listeners are going to be super excited to hear all of this. There's some really, really valuable information in here, so thank you for spending the time with us today. Oh, thank you. This was so much fun and listeners remember you can find out more about Sarah on her website, which I'll put in the podcast notes and in the blog, and be sure to visit writerswithwrinklesnet to follow, support and share about the show. And we will see you again next week, march 25th, for a big picture episode where we'll update you on our journey to publish Cat's Role. And so, until then, happy reading, writing and listening.
