ENCORE EDITION! Insider Secrets to Getting Your Book Published, with editor Erinn Pascal

ENCORE EDITION! (One of our favs from season 2!)

Erinn Pascal is the Senior Editor for Kids Books and Licensing at Andrews McMeel Universal. She has previously held editorial positions at Scholastic, Disney, and Simon & Schuster. Erinn grew up in Pembroke Pines, Florida, and holds a BFA in Writing, Literature, and Publishing from Emerson College. When she's not editing, Erinn enjoys veganizing family recipes, taking her mini Bernedoodle, Obi, to the dog park, practicing Pilates, and shopping at local farmer's markets. She currently resides in Los Angeles.

Key Discussion Points
1. Making Submissions Stand Out: Erinn emphasizes the importance of thorough research into the recipient of a submission, knowing their preferences, and understanding their existing catalog. She highlights the necessity of clear communication regarding an author’s goals and vision for their book.
2. Trends in Publishing: Erinn discusses the current trends, including the popularity of manga, anime-inspired art, horror, and graphic novels. She also notes the value of niche markets and creative stories.
3. The Acquisition Process: Erinn outlines the detailed acquisition process at Andrews McMeel Universal, from initial submission reviews to final decisions, including the role of sales and marketing teams.
4. Author Platforms: The discussion touches on the importance of an author's platform, noting that while a large following can influence print runs, it is not the sole factor in acquisition decisions. The content of an author’s social media is also considered, especially for children's book authors.
5. Diversity and Inclusion: Erinn expresses her interest in acquiring books that normalize different neurodivergences and religious minorities without making them the central theme of the story.

Conclusion
Erinn Pascal offers valuable insights into the publishing industry, from crafting standout submissions to navigating current trends and understanding the acquisition process. Her emphasis on meaningful partnerships between authors and editors, along with her commitment to diversity and inclusion, provides a comprehensive view of what it takes to succeed in today's publishing landscape.

Mentioned Links
- Visit Andrews McMeel Universal
- Follow Erinn Pascal on Twitter for updated manuscript wishlists

Chapters

• 0:32 Editorial Insights and Publishing Trends
• 11:27 Publishing Process and Industry Evolution
• 19:32 Author Platforms and Storytelling Success

Transcript

Beth McMullen: 0:32

Hi everyone. Lisa and I are still busy doing the summer thing, so this is the second of three Encore episodes of Writers with Wrinkles coming your way. This episode is with Erin Pascal, and it is amazing. You will be smarter at the end. I promise We'll be back with new episodes in July, including an Ask Us Anything episode that we're really excited about. Visit our social channels for all the details about that and now hope you enjoy the episode.

Beth McMullen: 1:08

Welcome back to Writers with Wrinkles friends. Thank you for joining us for episode 26. Today we are excited to welcome Erin Pascal to the podcast. Erin is the senior editor for kids books and licensing at Andrews McNeil Universal. Prior to AMU, she held editorial positions at Scholastic, disney and Simon Schuster. Erin grew up in Pembroke Pines, florida, and graduated with a BFA in writing literature and publishing from Emerson College in writing literature and publishing from Everson College in Boston, massachusetts. When not editing, erin can be found veganizing family Colombian and Jewish recipes, taking her mini burner doodle Obi to the dog park, doing Pilates or browsing the local farmer's market for fresh veggies. She currently lives in Los Angeles and welcomes any suggestions for laser tag in Southern California. But fair warning, she is competitive. Thank you so much for joining us, erin. We are thrilled that you're here.

Erinn Pascal: 2:04

Thank you so much for inviting me. I am equally thrilled to be here.

Lisa Schimd: 2:08

So full disclosure Erin is the senior editor at my Publisher and so I have been waiting for the right time to like kind of go into her DMs and say please, please, be on Writers with Wrinkles. And so I waited like the appropriate time of five to six months into the relationship and then I'm like, okay, now is the time. So welcome Erin. It's so nice to talk to you in person and see your beautiful face.

Erinn Pascal: 2:34

So welcome Erin. It's so nice to talk to you in person and see your beautiful face, thank you, and likewise so excited to see you and see Beth and I can't see everybody who's listening, right now but just pretend they're listening and drinking their coffee or doing whatever.

Lisa Schimd: 2:47

So we were supposed to originally talk on Monday and Beth had to reschedule because her son they went and checked out a university in London and so that's where she was over the weekend.

Beth McMullen: 3:02

So that's big news and we could talk about that later, which is why I look like a corpse, because I feel like a little confused about where I am in time and space, but that's a me problem, as my teenager would like to say. So we have some great questions from you that I think our listeners are going to be very interested in hearing the answers to. I know that I am. So let's get started with those, and the first one is from an editor's perspective, what are the best things an author can do to make their submission stand out in this current climate? I love this question because I'm super curious what the answer is going to be.

Erinn Pascal: 3:42

I love this question too, actually. So I would say, to make your submission really stand out, do research into who you're submitting to, and by that I mean, does this person accept picture books? Does this person accept romance? And also, do they have a lot of it? Because if they have a lot of something, maybe they're not looking for more. This is such a great sentence I'm about to say there is no too much research that you can do into who you're going to work with, and I should say that in editing and kind of anything you do in book publishing, it is all about a partnership.

Erinn Pascal: 4:19

So somebody may look like they're your dream editor, dream agent, online Things might really check out, but because of bandwidth or because of anything else that's happening, they might not be the perfect agent or creator for you. So it's always really important to kind of have conversations and be open and talk to people about what your vision is. Whenever I'm kind of on a kickoff call with the creator before we signed a contract, after we signed a contract, I always say what do you want? And some people will say you know, I want to earn out my advance and make a hundred million dollars. And I mean, who doesn't?

Erinn Pascal: 4:46

I do too, but a lot of the times people will say you know, I really want to do a library tour, or I really want to make sure that my book gets read by every kid with scoliosis, and so I think it's really cool to talk about that, because I want to best support the authors and I want to know what you guys want. So I think I like a little bit of directive. I will say that I like when people say this is what my book will do, this is what I want to reach with my book, this is how I think we're going to be good partners together and let's talk about it.

Beth McMullen: 5:19

I love that you are thinking about it from that perspective because it does imply that meaningful partnership, rather than I know that there are lots of authors that I've spoken to and Lisa has spoken to over the years who feel like it's a very one-sided conversation, where you say my aspiration is to do a library tour and the publisher's like yeah, yeah, yeah, great, whatever. And then you never hear about it again. Or when you bring it up again, they're like sorry, we don't have the resources for that. Or you know you're welcome to do it all on your own if you want to, but don't expect anything from us. So I I love to hear that that you are thinking about it from that partnership perspective, because that makes such a huge difference to the writer.

Erinn Pascal: 6:05

It really does. And I think, like as editors, we want to help you. We really do, and I mean if something a library tour, just to kind of use that as an example might come out of the marketing budget. But if we have these conversations now, we can say, all right, instead of prioritizing you know, tote bags, because everybody loves their tote bags we're going to prioritize this instead, and I think that's what's really important.

Lisa Schimd: 6:28

Well, and I think every author is so different. You know, there's some people that want to get out and do that tour and be out and do the face to face and somebody else might want that. Just, you know the swag and that help in that department and so those are all good things to know and it's great to have that relationship.

Erinn Pascal: 6:47

Absolutely, and that's so valid too. I mean, I know so many people who say my book speaks for itself, like I'm not the greatest in crowds, I'm not the greatest talking to people, especially with different neurodivergencies and different kind of physical disability. We would never want somebody to be uncomfortable. So I think that's what's really important is to kind of find your fit, really know what you want, be open to feedback, of course, because sometimes I'll be like, okay, that's a great title, but that's been published before, so what about this? But I definitely appreciate it.

Lisa Schimd: 7:18

So are you seeing just this, just kind of jumping from that question, are you seeing, like, is there some big trend that you know you're you're looking at, or that you're kind of not necessarily wishlist, but is there something that's really like popping right now that people are looking for, that you're looking for? That is kind of the buzz out there.

Erinn Pascal: 7:42

Yeah. So I think there's definitely trends in the marketplace and it's always funny because I'll say trends and then two weeks later I'll be like nevermind. But right now I think we're seeing a lot of manga, we're seeing a lot of anime-inspired art, we're seeing a lot of horror still Horror is everywhere and incredible and growing Graphic novels, of course, but graphic novels from graphic novel creators and debut creators, not people who just think, oh, I could do a graphic novel. So we're seeing a lot of buzz and build there. But what I personally love, and what I think people and kids and readers really love, is if you find a kind of niche market and go after that.

Erinn Pascal: 8:21

So I'm working currently on a book about pin trading, and there's enamel pins everywhere. There's fan-made enamel pins. Disney has a ton of enamel pins that you can trade at the trading park enamel pins that you can trade at the trading park. And so what the author, brianna Lawrence, did is she said I'm going to create this world where kids get superpowers off this enamel pin, and it's going to be about these four preteens who have to figure out the mystery of why they got superpowers and who this pin maker is, and what I love about it so much is.

Erinn Pascal: 8:51

It has the niche of pin trading, which has tons and tons of pin traders out there. I have my own pin board and everything, but it also really just has the elements of mystery and fun and adventure and, like fantasy, light, and there's a theme park, of course. So I love those kinds of different demographics where you can say this has everything that works in a book. And here's a really cool topic that, honestly, let's be real on Amazon, which is an everything store, if I'm searching enamel pins and I think, wow, here's a book, that's pretty cool, that's brilliant.

Beth McMullen: 9:26

That is great, that is really great. And they're all these, I think because we live in such a stratified entertainment universe. Now there are all these different channels that you can tune into that appeal to you and it's not like back in the nineties when every single person watched runs on Thursday evening. You've got all these little slots that you can stick yourself into and it's it talks to you more than like this generalized audience. That is. That's cool. I want to read that.

Erinn Pascal: 9:57

It comes out in spring 24. So I will definitely make sure that you get on that list.

Lisa Schimd: 10:02

So you also mentioned something about graphic novels, because I don't know a lot about graphic novels. It's not something. I've read a bunch of them, but I've always wondered like is there times when you'll get a story without the illustrator?

Erinn Pascal: 10:16

There is a lot of times that you'll get a story without an illustrator or you'll have an illustrator you really want to work with and then finally find the perfect story for them. Okay, there's also. There's so much in graphic novels, you know. You can get somebody who's a colorist, who does the color for some pages or parts of it. You'll have somebody doing line work. You can have a flatterer pages or parts of it, you'll have somebody doing line work. You can have a flatterer. You can have a different letterer involved too, who will actually like physically create the type that's in the book. So there's so much that goes into a graphic novel and it's its own art form. It's like what I say with picture books. I do believe that everybody can study it and everybody can learn how to do it. But you can't just decide. Okay, I was a kid once. I can write for kids. You know, there's a craft in it.

Lisa Schimd: 10:57

Absolutely. So that brings us to the next question and it's I think this is like the big mystery that everyone always wonders is the acquisition process, like what goes on behind the scenes? Are there, you know what are the steps? Are there things that can make or break a deal? Like what? Can you kind of pull back the curtain a little bit for us and tell us what goes on? Because I know especially people who've never gone through it before. They hear acquisition and their heart just like seizes up because it's scary.

Erinn Pascal: 11:27

So I'll talk about how it is at Andrews McNeil, because it is truly very different in every house I've worked at and it also changes a lot, especially I don't want to say post-pandemic, more like middle of pandemic. But so at Andrews McMeel how it works is each week we get submissions from an agent and all of our submissions go to a weekly meeting called editorial so it's called Eds for short and we all send them around. So every single editor has to look at the submissions and we bring our feedback to this editorial meeting. So I actually just came from one a few hours ago and what will happen is I might come in and I might say I got this amazing book in it's poetry about soup and I'm just saying that because I'm standing in my kitchen looking at a box of soup and somebody might say, oh yeah, that's a really good idea for these reasons. Or maybe somebody who's been at the company longer than me will say, oh well, we did a book about soup poetry before. So if we're going to do this again, we should really find a way to platform our current creator. And it's kind of a conversation between the editors first and it's also really it's a nice process because if I'm not connecting with something, maybe one of the other editors is. Or if I'm really connecting with something but don't have the bandwidth for when it should be on sale, maybe somebody else should take that on.

Erinn Pascal: 12:45

So we kind of discuss, we discuss all different aspects of the book from an editorial perspective, if we like it, if we all agree that this is kind of a project we want to pursue. Sometimes we might get feedback over to the agent. We might say you know, we love it, but we think the characters are younger, or we think the characters are older, or would you consider a different artist, or you know, whatever kind of feedback we have. That being said, if I ever send feedback and an author says no, I also kind of love that because I want to know why, and sometimes that'll help of everything. So I love when people say, hey, I see what you're saying, but this is what I've got.

Erinn Pascal: 13:41

So once we kind of get to a point that we agree editorially, this is a project that we want to pursue, I then send it around to my sales team, kind of as a preview. And that is a benefit of working at Andrews McNeil, which is a small independent company distributed by Simon Schuster is that I do get to send this around to kind of our sales and marketing team first and they can let me know kind of in a brief email if it's worth talking about acquisitions or not. So let's say they say that this book is worth talking at acquisitions. I'll then prepare a kind of acquisitions memo where I have to write a summary and look up comp titles just to see what has sold similarly by houses that are bigger than us and houses that are smaller than us. So we can kind of come up with a range of how we think we can best support our author. Then I take it to a weekly acquisitions meeting.

Erinn Pascal: 14:30

At the weekly acquisitions meeting, sales will weigh in and they'll say, okay, we agree, we really like this book. This person is, maybe they're a debut. So let's talk about how we can work with them as a debut to make sure that we get their book out there. Are they interested in libraries? Are they interested in schools? Are they interested in giveaways for pre-orders? What can we do to increase buzz and kind of make people buy it on the everything store?

Erinn Pascal: 14:54

So there is a lot that goes into it and a lot of it is us trying to make sure that we are making the right decision for the creator, because sometimes it happens that we'll say we really do love this project, we just don't think we're the house for it. Or we'll say we love this project and we're going right ahead Like. This is how it's working. So at acquisitions we're usually given a print run number which is based on the previous comps that we've pulled, as well as any kind of sales history the author has, if they have, and then from there we run some numbers which, honestly, I wish I could explain. I cannot. We run some numbers and then we hopefully move forward with an offer that's a lot yeah, and it happens every week.

Beth McMullen: 15:39

I don't think people appreciate how complicated it is behind the scenes. I remember the very first time that I sort of had it explained to me what goes on once the book has been submitted to an editor. I was really surprised, because you just don't hear about it, you just don't know. So it's good to understand that all of these things are going on while you're sitting there waiting and authors we're very needy, so we're panicking in the background. So it's good to know that there's stuff going on. It just doesn't necessarily involve you at that point. It's just your work is out there getting looked at and getting talked about and you just have to relax, if that's possible.

Erinn Pascal: 16:21

Oh yeah, and sometimes it depends on the time of year too. Like Beth, when you said you were in London, I thought you were at London Book Fair, because all of our meetings were canceled last week for London Book Fair and then this week for people traveling back from London Book Fair, and I'm sure people will be calling out sick next week from London Book Fair. So sometimes I hope not, but sometimes, you know, we'll just go three weeks where I'm like I don't have an update. I'm so sorry.

Lisa Schimd: 16:46

Yeah, I think well, and then you hear you always hear the stories about oh, it was killed in finance or it was. You know all these different avenues that that someplace along the chain that the book deal got shelved, and so that's. That's always scary and you hear that's happening.

Erinn Pascal: 17:05

So it is happening. I do think it's getting better, just because I feel like publishing up until the pandemic was its own weird beast and then, at the start of the pandemic, evolved I think maybe 20 times, and now we're starting to see it plateau a little bit more, where we're understanding how much books cost a little better. The supply chain, which was a big one oh my goodness, that affected everything for a while. So I think we're understanding the process a bit more in terms of shipping and how the world has changed.

Lisa Schimd: 17:37

Do you feel like it's settled down that everything's kind of evening out and you're getting back into a normal rhythm with not only just like the acquisition process but also with getting the book out and into the world printed?

Erinn Pascal: 17:52

Yeah, and you know we're not there yet. Like I felt very confident in schedules pre-pandemic and now I'm like, well, there's so many things you know, maybe there's a ship that's stuck in the sea. That happens now, I guess Right. So everything is kind of in flux. But in good news that means prior to the pandemic I was sending a book to a printer about three months ahead of time. If it was a rush. That doesn't happen anymore. You really have to send it to the printer 11 months ahead of time to avoid all of these shipping delays. But what is really nice about that is we get a lot better sell-in materials for accounts. So 11 months ahead of time I can say here's the final manuscript, like that's what the book's going to be and we have seen it help. So it is slower, which nobody likes, but I do think it's going to be for everyone's betterment it's inch.

Beth McMullen: 18:43

You know it's interesting too is just to kind of circle around to when we were talking about writing to trends. That makes it even more pointless to write to a trend because the trend is long gone by the time your book, because we're writing so far in advance that by the time it comes around to your trend. Then I mean, if you want to write graphic novels, that's never going to be a trend, that's you, that's your thing. But if you're trying to, you're thinking, okay, I have to write a graphic novel because that's what's trending. And then who knows what's going to be trending in two years. I mean we can't even imagine. So I think that lengthening of the pre-publication process, kind of changes that desire to write to a trend. It's just kind of interesting to think about.

Erinn Pascal: 19:30

Oh, I absolutely agree with that. But I think also, if it's a good story, that's not a trend, people always want a good story. You can find something kind of a niche topic, like I said with enamel pins, and then find a way to make it a really good story Like that is my catnip, that's perfect.

Beth McMullen: 19:47

That's the gold, and I think that, exactly, if your story is good, you're just going to tell it and that's going to be the important part. But I think I definitely hear stories of authors who say I have to write a quirky, dark romance because that's what's selling, and I was like 10 minutes from now it's going to be something else, so just don't worry.

Erinn Pascal: 20:08

Yep, exactly, and there's also something to be said like oh, that's something that you're seeing selling, that's something you want to try out. Maybe you find out that you really do like it. Like that, I think, is also really cool, and I love learning everything I can about something different, but it's also, you know, write what you want to write, write what is in your heart to write. It's an art form.

Beth McMullen: 20:28

Yeah, it's. That's could not be better said than that it really is. Yeah, that could not be better said than that it really is. So our last question for you is about author platforms, and we hear about this a lot from various sources on the internet saying, hey, you need an author platform. It's going to make you a multi-million copy bestseller. This is how you do it and I think for a lot of people, they get, you know, some feedback or they get they get these messages and then they panic because they have no idea what they're doing and platform seems overwhelming. Obviously, there are lots of degrees of platform that you can do, but how important is it from your perspective as the editor, when you have a new author, that you're thinking about acquiring their book? How important is it to you that they either have an established platform or they can show some evidence of being engaged with their audience and social media, or however they choose to do it?

Erinn Pascal: 21:24

I love this question because it does kind of touch on what we talked about earlier when we're establishing print runs for something. So I will be honest, if you come to me and you have 10 million followers, you're going to have a higher print run because I know that you're going to be posting and it's going to be seen by more people. But that doesn't mean that only people with 10 million followers are getting book deals by any means at all. It just means that we have to set expectations, especially when it regards shipping. So you know, there's validity to every single book and there's validity to building a creator.

Erinn Pascal: 21:57

Like I was saying, if they're a debut, I want to know how can we help you? What do you want to do? Are you the kind of person that will be in front of schools or are you the person who will, you know, maybe just very quietly, just sign some books at a bookstore? Like what? How can we help you? How can we make this work? And there's a lot. I think it's kind of what it goes back to with that kickoff call. What does success look like for each creator? Is success telling your story? Is success selling a million and a hundred copies? Is it both. That's totally valid too. But to answer the question of how much does it weigh in, I don't really think it does, aside from actually deciding how many books we're printing.

Lisa Schimd: 22:39

That's an interesting answer. I didn't expect that, because I've always heard things about like. In my first book deal they actually like looked. They must have looked back through some of my social media to find something and they had a question about it. And it was nothing horrible, it was just about the publishing. You know my publishing journey and I was like, oh my God, they must have like scrolled down like two years in my Facebook, you know author page. I'm like that was crazy. So then I just you know. And then I've heard other stories where people are like, oh yeah, they, they saw something and asked me questions about it. So do you look at the content of what they're? You know what they're posting like to kind of get a feel for them as a person, etc.

Erinn Pascal: 23:26

So that is a good question and that kind of goes away a little bit from follower count, which I was kind of answering before. We strongly believe in free speech. Andrews McNeil strongly believes in it. There comes to a point where sometimes free speech is at the detriment of other people and we've been in the news you can Google it, I don't want to talk about it here where we have severed relationships and it was not my creator, so honestly, I truly had nothing to do with this, but we have severed relationships because there is a difference between free speech and inciting hate. I'll put it that way. So if a creator whose book I otherwise like is inciting hate, then yeah, probably would factor into our decision whether or not to help platform.

Erinn Pascal: 24:11

Hopefully nobody listening to this has any kind of instance of that, but I'm certainly aware it happens. And again, this is by no means like can we disagree A hundred percent. I disagree with my own family members all of the time and I love them dearly. There's, again, different political affiliations, different religions, different kinds of everything, 100%, totally fine. You're talking about, you know, again, inciting hate is really just kind of what I want to keep emphasizing. That's where things get different. And then for kids in particular. I know that if we're looking at somebody who maybe has a larger following, I want to make sure that the content is something I would feel comfortable having a kid at that age level. Look at, if your name if I'm Googling your name and it's coming up with like your OnlyFans account there's nothing wrong with OnlyFans at all, but maybe that should be a pen name. So you know, just, we'll try to figure it out.

Lisa Schimd: 25:08

I don't know what that is. I'll tell you later.

Beth McMullen: 25:11

I'll fill you in later. Lisa, offline. We don't need to talk about it right now, I know.

Erinn Pascal: 25:19

If you're posting, you know, interesting photos of yourself again, by all means, that is totally your right if you're over the age of 18.

Beth McMullen: 25:25

But if it's for kids books, maybe we talk about how to separate those online identities, but it's such a you know, because you dial back 20 something years and you just didn't have this digital baggage. That we all have.

Beth McMullen: 25:36

now I got a really funny I think it was Instagram or Twitter from somebody who I didn't know and they were like all you post is pictures of cats. And I was like, yeah, because, first of all, that's 99% of the internet, so I feel like I need to contribute and, second of all, nothing's going to happen with the cats, it's just they can't object. They're cute. I mean cats and books. I'm like cats and books is kind of where I'm at.

Lisa Schimd: 26:03

but it was a really funny little exchange where I was like sorry, Erin Beth has a light beam series where cats and I she said this in the last podcast.

Beth McMullen: 26:15

I'm like wait what sunbeam, not a light beam. It's like cats cats in a sunbeam series and they are so cute and Lisa is disparaging my passion project no, we love passion projects.

Lisa Schimd: 26:30

But it was so funny when she said that I'm like wait, what I didn't know, that you had like a series.

Beth McMullen: 26:37

And I just added a new one. I upped my game because today it's a video. So there you go. Only cat videos, okay. Cat video.

Lisa Schimd: 26:48

Cats in sunbeams videos that I'm your girl for sure, that's okay because Erin always posts pictures of Obie who's so cute Like in different, like little poses and crazy little faces and stuff.

Beth McMullen: 27:02

That is what the internet is good for, you know. It's good for animal pictures.

Lisa Schimd: 27:07

If somebody's writing a book and they want to get it published, it should just be about a Bernadoodle and send it to Erin.

Erinn Pascal: 27:15

You know, I did get a Bernadoodle submission one time. I should also be really clear, though did get a Bernadoodle submission one time. I should also be really clear, though Like I'm, I love Bernadoodles. Obviously, I have a Bernadoodle. I'm also like he's a poodle mix. I'm that person who I will correct you at the dog park, and I'm like, oh yeah, the vet like, yep, he's a poodle mix. I'm super aware of it. Poodles are so smart. Yeah, mean we ob? He learned high five in maybe five seconds because we were giving him popcorn every time he was doing a high five, and he learned the word taco.

Erinn Pascal: 27:48

So this this is the fun part about living in la which I've learned I moved to la in october is every place has a dog option, like every single place you walk into, and, and I am exactly that kind of person who will buy it. I was most recently at this restaurant, sugar Taco. It's these amazing vegan tacos. I go to the cash register and there's a big sign there that says ask us about the dog tacos. I'd already paid. I got out Apple Pay again, which apparently is also a thing, apple Pay, I don't even have my credit card with me. Paid on Apple Pay for this dog taco. Get home, tell Obi you want a taco. Three days later we say taco in conversation and Obi just perks his head up. He's like, yeah, where, where is it? I want it.

Beth McMullen: 28:29

They are smart and it's kind of like you know they're just paying attention to everything you're saying. That's great. I have to go and look at pictures of him. He's adorable. So where you?

Lisa Schimd: 28:41

have a really smart dog. I've got a little pug named Lucy and she is. I think she's getting a little kooky in her old age and so, like last night, I was laying there and I woke up at like four in the morning and I just went and got some water and then I went back to bed and right as I was falling I heard this dog barking and I was like, oh my god, who is letting their dog out in the middle of the night? And I was listening to see what neighbor? I was cursing in my brain and I'm like, oh my god, it's coming from inside the house. It was Lucy and Ollie, my son son's room, sitting on the bed, just like barking in the air, and I like grabbed her. I'm like, what are you doing? So, anyway, no, she, if she would not be like high-fiving or anything, she would just be like.

Beth McMullen: 29:31

She was seeing ghosts, probably right, there's a new idea for you. Stop, all right, so we could go down the dog cat rabbit hole forever, but we do not want to take up your whole day erin, so oh bonus question oh wait, I'm jumping again.

Lisa Schimd: 29:49

Go ahead this is what everybody has listened through our cat and dog stories to hear. It's like all our our listeners have paid the price to get to this moment. There is a fee, okay. What is at the top of your manuscript wishlist?

Erinn Pascal: 30:07

So that is such a good question, and if you're listening to this, in six months, please check my Twitter feed or my actual wishlist, because it will be updated. So today, I believe this episode's airing May 1st 2023, correct? Okay, so it should be valid for like a week. So you guys have a week Right now.

Erinn Pascal: 30:26

What I'm really really looking for are, you know, I don't mean to say this in an umbrella term, but I am looking for different points of view and different kind of neurodivergencies. Points of view and different kind of neurodivergences. So what I would love and I'm not even talking about like here's I have ADHD, for example, if it wasn't obvious. So I'm not looking for like ADHD the graphic novel. I'm looking for sunny day in LA, the graphic novel, and the main character just happens to have ADHD. So it's really more about normalizing different people and different aspects of life, while not necessarily even being about these specific things, and I love that. That is absolutely what I'm looking for. You know, different kinds of neurodivergencies, different kinds of religious minorities as well. Maybe it's not even about that, but they're just going to go celebrate a different holiday and that's just part of the story.

Beth McMullen: 31:20

Do you know? Who does that so well is Sally Ploth, who's going to be on the show in a few weeks. So her first book was the Someday Birds, which I still think about a handful of years later. She does that so well. It's just so effective. Her storytelling is great. There are these characters that resonate on all these different levels. So when you say that, I automatically think of her stuff and I mean it's yeah, it's like a great space for, I think, people who have that skill to work in absolutely, and I think it's also again nobody should write what's out of their comfort zone.

Erinn Pascal: 31:56

but also it's interesting because we live in a world where everybody is different, and so you know whether you're normalizing dyslexia or maybe we're using a dyslexia friendly font in the book if the character has dyslexia, which is also.

Lisa Schimd: 32:09

Oh, I love that. Are you doing that?

Erinn Pascal: 32:12

Yeah, we are doing that. Actually, we have some graphic novels that are coming out starting this year that are all dyslexia-friendly fonts.

Lisa Schimd: 32:19

Well, that is a great answer, and I'm not even going to give a hint in our social media as to what you said.

Erinn Pascal: 32:26

So they have to get through all about OB knowing about pockets and about cat light beams. Did I say that correctly?

Beth McMullen: 32:33

Yes, I did it. They have to run the gauntlet in order to get the reward. I think that's totally fair. Keeps people on the edge of their seat. This has been so, so interesting for me. I know it's going to be so interesting for our listeners, so we thank you so much for being here and sharing all these wonderful insights with us. It's been a super engaging conversation.

Erinn Pascal: 32:56

Absolutely, and thank you again so much for having me.

Beth McMullen: 32:59

It was absolutely our pleasure, and thank you, listeners, for tuning in. We will see you again next week, may 8th, for episode 27, where we will have a brand new Books on Botox selection and a hot writing tip that you don't want to miss. So until then, happy reading, writing and listening.