Writers With Wrinkles
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Writers With Wrinkles
Behind the Book: Insider Tips from Editor Hannah Kimber on Crafting Standout Submissions
Episode Summary:
Hannah Kimber, associate editor at Andrews McMeel Publishing, shares insights on making book submissions stand out and the detailed acquisitions process. She emphasizes the importance of sensitivity readers, understanding market trends, and open communication between authors and editors.
Guest Bio:
Hannah Kimber is an associate editor of children's books at Andrews McMeel Publishing. She acquires middle grade graphic novels and prose, as well as some young adult literature, with a special interest in light fantasy, light horror, and slice of life friendship stories. When not working, she enjoys reading, rock climbing, hiking, and running.
Key Discussion Points:
- ALA Conference: Discussion about missing the American Library Association (ALA) conference and the emotional experiences associated with it.
- Book Submissions: Advice on making book submissions stand out, including having a concise, attention-grabbing synopsis and a well-organized proposal document.
- Acquisitions Process: Overview of the acquisitions process, from initial submission review to the final deal, highlighting the importance of research, comparative titles, and strategy.
- Sensitivity and Authenticity: Emphasis on the importance of sensitivity readers and authentic representation in children's books.
- Trends in Publishing: Observations on identifying upcoming trends and the importance of understanding what engages children today.
- Practical Advice: Encouragement for authors to trust the process and communicate their strong feelings about their work.
Conclusion:
Hannah Kimber provided valuable insights into the editorial and acquisitions process at Andrews McMeel Publishing, highlighting the importance of well-prepared submissions and understanding market trends. She emphasized the role of sensitivity and authenticity in children's literature and encouraged authors to trust the publishing process while maintaining open communication with their editors.
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Hi friends, I'm Beth McMullen and I'm Lisa Schmidt, and we're the co-hosts of Writers with Wrinkles. This is season 3, episode 28, and today we are excited to welcome Hannah Kimber to the show. Hannah is an associate editor of children's books at Andrews McNeil Publishing. She acquires middle grade graphic novels and prose, as well as some young adult, with a special interest in light fantasy, light horror and slice of life friendship stories. When not working, you can find Hannah in one of two extremes on the couch with her cats and a book, or outside, rock climbing, hiking or running. Welcome, hannah, we are so excited to have you here with us today.
Hannah Kimber:Thank you, and actually that was the first time I've heard my new name announced. So I just got married a couple of weeks ago and I've been updating all my things to say Hannah Kimber, but with do sold in parentheses, just because I know that's how some people know me. But very exciting so thank you.
Beth McMullen:It does feel a little strange for a while.
Lisa Schmid:Yeah, when I first thought and we were just saying this before we came on Beth had sent me over to show notes and it said Hannah Kimber, and I'm like well, this is awkward, because her name is Hannah DeSold Like I don't know what's happening right now. And then it suddenly dawned on me Erin, the senior editor over at Andrews Neal, had told me over the weekend that you got married and, PS, I'm so sad. We were at ALA this last weekend and it's one of those things that I really wish you could have been there to take part of such a joyful experience. Being surrounded by librarians is cozy.
Hannah Kimber:Yeah, absolutely. I looked at pictures from that and I was feeling a lot of FOMO as well. It just looked like such a great event and the panel that you guys did the just spooky enough or just scary enough. That's just so cute and, yeah, I I'm hoping I can go next year, but we had such a large Andrews McNeil presence there this year that it was like we really don't need anyone else.
Hannah Kimber:So I'm glad Erin was there to kind of, you know, carry the torch a little bit, but obviously we're in fantastic hands with her.
Lisa Schmid:So I mean, the whole weekend is really fun and I met a lot of people probably have never been to ALA. It was my first time there and I will tell you that and that's shocker news alert. I cried when we were walking over to do my signing. All of a sudden I was like, okay, you guys, I need a moment. And I just I'm going to cry now. I just started crying. I'm like, okay, you pull yourself together. And Alonzo's like okay, you got this. And Leslie, my agent, leslie Sanpetti, flew out for it and so I had Leslie there and Alonzo and Daniela going over to the signing with me and it was super emotional. And then it's just such a fun event Like, if you've never been to ALA, they're just giving away books, like it's magical.
Lisa Schmid:When I was walking by, there'd be like stacks of books and people would be handing me books. I'm like I can just take it Like it's mine, Just like keep Amazing.
Hannah Kimber:As a book lover. Yeah, that's true, and I hear you on the crying like I mean, it's such a big thing to like and and now we're in the month of July, which is just crazy to me because your book is coming out so soon, and it's like it's just a big thing, like you're presenting this work to the public, and yeah, I totally hear you on that, Cause it's you know, it is an emotional thing and it's really fun.
Lisa Schmid:So it is and I tried to tell Leslie was there. I'm like this is our book and I wish you could have been there because it's our book. Like I feel like it's you and me. Leslie got us together, you know, and then you know it. Just it's that big moment and I got to share it and so, and then the rest of the Andrews McNeil team was just amazing. Aaron was awesome leading the panel, and the other two authors and the illustrator I was with on the panel were just so much fun. And I'm reading Carly's book, the Ghosts of Nameless Island, right now. I took that back with me and I was reading it on the plane and it's amazing. So I mean I'll be screaming heart and souls from the rooftops. But you know also I'll be talking a lot about the other two books I was with on the panel, their books as well. So it was just such a fun event and I just I wish you could have been there to share in that moment.
Beth McMullen:Yeah, Next time. And also, if Lisa doesn't cry, it's not a event, like honestly, it doesn't have emotional heft, like if Lisa's not crying, then the organizers are doing something wrong because they're not striking the right emotional notes with whatever it is Amazing. So I'm, you know I'm, I'm happy to hear you cried, because that means it was a success. Amazing.
Lisa Schmid:So I'm, you know, I'm I'm happy to hear you cried, cause that means it was a success Before I got there. There's a moment, so I just gotten there. It was Friday and it was like late in the afternoon and I'm like I think it's like I walked down into my hotel lobby and the first person I run into is Jerry craft and I'm like, oh my God, I got to get over to this, like it's still going on. I'm like, is it still going on? He's like looking at me like I'm crazy, and he's like, yeah, it's like right down the street, like head on down.
Lisa Schmid:So when scampering down and you have to like cross over this huge there's real railway tracks before you get to the actual convention center, which is huge, and as I walk up, I'm at the crosswalk with a bunch of adorable librarians it was Dominique and Lyric, I remember their two names and a bunch of other ladies and I was talking to them and I was all excited to get over there. And it's like we're itching like it. You know it's inching past five, 530. And I don't know how late it's open and the train is just dead, stop there. And it's like there forever.
Lisa Schmid:And I'm like looking down and I can see nothing but train cars and it's blocking me from getting to LA. And I'm just like, oh my God, am I going to make it over? And then it's like 10 minutes later and I see this woman like crossover. There's like little steps, like leading between two of the cars and she walks over them and everyone's like, oh, look at her, she's brave. So then a couple other people did it. I'm like, okay, I'm doing it. And I'm like, okay, bye guys. And I went running over there and I thought to myself this is how I die, like trying to get to ALA. This is the moment I'll be. That person with it'll be in the newspaper that says like she was so excited to get there, she died on the tracks. That is actually so funny.
Hannah Kimber:It's a fitting way to go.
Lisa Schmid:Scampering over these stairs and like jumping down onto the other side of the railway. Oh my gosh, that would be quite a headline. Amazing, I made it. I made it, yeah you did.
Hannah Kimber:You're here, and you're here now, so you made it back.
Beth McMullen:Yes, you survived. Well, I think we could talk and tell ALA stories all day, but we are going to get to the questions that our listeners want the answers to. Yeah, we're always excited to have editors on this show, because our listeners love, love, love these episodes. If they feel like they're getting to peer into your head, so this is actually really great. So the first question is what are the best things an author can do to make their submission stand out? We know it's a super crowded field. Everybody has a book that they're trying to sell, so what are some things that make you notice a book as opposed to books that you're like nope, nope, nope, mm-hmm.
Hannah Kimber:I thought this was a really great question, because it's something that I struggle with week after week is just finding the time and the energy to go in you know, post working on my current projects to go in and read book submissions. You know it can be, it's one of those things that, like every editor, wishes we had more time to do, but in reality, you know, we're just we're pretty overloaded and so going into read book submissions is, like, you know, one of the things that we do at the end of the day, or like, maybe when we have like time in between other things, or you know we've set some time aside to do it. So, to your point, you know there really is there's just so much coming in and so little time to look at things that it really does matter. There's just so much coming in and so little time to look at things that it really does matter. You know there are broad things that you can do to make things stand out, but I also put in, you know, some more kind of specific, like logistical things that I always that always helped me, like, just, you know, when I'm tired or like whatever, I'm reading these book submissions, it just really helps to have some little technical things too.
Hannah Kimber:So kind of just starting at the beginning. I always it's so helpful to have like a short but very like attention grabbing synopsis. I don't like when people have like their whole book outlined like right there in the email because that's too much. Like I start to read it and then like by the second paragraph I'm like wait a minute, what did I just read? Like I have to go back and read it again.
Hannah Kimber:So I would say, like always starting with, like make the book synopsis as much like a movie trailer as you can like just pack in all of the things you know what I mean, like all of the exciting things, and then feel free to you know in the proposal go into a more detailed synopsis, if that's you know what you want to do in the proposal. But I definitely think like just starting from square one, when I'm able to just kind of read a log line of a book and kind of get an idea of what it was that or what it is what it wants to be, that really helps me to start to sort of place the book in my own mind and then read on from there. Everything that I'm doing with book submissions when I'm reading them, is trying to figure out how does the author place this in their minds? Like, how do they place it? Where are they placing it in the market? Like, what does the scope of the book look like and how does that fit into our publishing house? So everything I'm doing when I'm reading the book submission, aside from looking at like the content, the writing and all of that, is really trying to figure out like the scope of the project and how it fits in with what we can do, and so the more that authors and agents really can help do some of that heavy lifting. It allows me to like even dive in further and not have to like waste energy on on those little things.
Hannah Kimber:So another thing that's really helpful is, you know, for every book submission that I get that I think looks promising, I have to do research on the authors and figure out their background, if they have a previous sales track, if they have, you know, a platform on social media or whatever. I also have to go in and research what I feel are appropriate, like comparative titles. So what are titles that are out on the market now that are really similar to what I'm looking at? And then, of course, digging into the content and like figuring out is the age range appropriate? Are the topics appropriate? You know that kind of thing. So when I see a proposal where the author and agent have really thought through those questions and have already done some of that work, it helps me immensely because I'm still going to do that background work, I'm still going to look at comp titles and things like that. But it sort of places a context around the project that is really necessary for me to kind of start and, you know, place it again like, where does it fit in our list? How can it fit into our list? So having things like that in, you know, a proposal, is super, super helpful. I can't say enough about that.
Hannah Kimber:And then, just technically, I love seeing a separate proposal document alongside the manuscript. If you have a manuscript, that's great and you know, but a lot of times it'll just be like the email with the manuscript attached from the agent or whatever. That's fine, and I've acquired plenty like that. I will say that it is a lot easier for me when there's kind of a separate like PDF or whatever that has all the information about the author. That has like the comp titles and the synopsis.
Hannah Kimber:For example, it has ideas for marketing and if it's a series like what do you envision for the future, things like that, it tells me that the author has really thought through the entire scope of the project and not just the creative side of the project but really the business side of the project as well. Because you know, as an editor, it's my job to have my hand in both worlds the business side and the creative side and so it is really helpful when the creative person that I'm working with is also thinking through some of those questions you know, and even if, even if they, you know, place it contextually and I'm like, oh, I don't know if I agree with that, they still helped.
Hannah Kimber:They helped me get to that conclusion. And so it's not like you know, if they choose comp titles and I'm like, oh no, those are totally wrong, I cannot acquire this project. That's never happened. It just really helps me to, like you know, solidify where the project should sit, at least for the acquisition process. So I also would say like and this is such a silly thing, but I'm just being honest, you know, I'm looking at like like ugly Word documents day after day.
Hannah Kimber:It's so nice to have a little like proposal that's cute, with like some design elements and stuff like that. You know, like we do a lot of middle grade prose that is illustrated. We usually hire the authors on our end or the illustrators on our end. So I'm not saying that like authors need to go out and like hire an illustrator and illustrate the proposal and everything like that. No, no, no, please don't do that.
Hannah Kimber:But like a little bit of like design or something you know like mock it up in PowerPoint or Canva, you know, just something to kind of make it pop and stand out a little bit.
Hannah Kimber:It also really gives me like a visual sense of the book, because if we are illustrating the book, then it does become a visual project as well in a lot of ways, and I know that can be difficult for authors to like think through in the beginning. But, lisa, I think you're a great example of someone who kind of did think through that. Like you had an idea of what you wanted the illustrations and like the cover to look like, and that was super helpful for us Because, again, like you just want to be able to kind of visualize the project in your head before it comes to fruition and you want to be able to take that to other people sales marketing, you know other key people and say like here's what it looks like, here's why I think it fits on our list. The more that the authors and agents can help with that, the easier it is on us.
Beth McMullen:So I also feel like it's nice to not have the author feel surprised when you say this is part of your responsibility. The marketing, the sales, thinking through where it fits in the marketplace, thinking through the visuals, all of those things. I think it would be easier as an editor to already know that they're aware of that on some level, just so that you're not saying that to them and they're going what I thought. All I had to do was write the book. Well, that would be nice, but that's not the world nowadays. I mean, those are great things that are actually doable for people who are listening to this. These are all things that you can absolutely pull off. So that is great advice.
Lisa Schmid:And this is leads perfectly into the next question. Something you kind of already touched on a little bit is the acquisition process, which when you hear acquisitions and you know every writer in the world shudders a little bit. What goes on? And it's such a huge mystery and when I first heard it, when I was first starting out, I'm like what is this crazy thing that happens behind the scenes? Can you give us a little bit of info about what goes on, what takes place and what can make or break a deal?
Hannah Kimber:Yeah, honestly, sometimes it feels like a mystery to me as well, even being on the other side of it. It's so subjective. You know every book is different. Every single project is different, because each author is different, the content is different, but you know like the marketing will look different and you know everything. Everything is different and so you really, like the acquisitions process can look different for each project.
Hannah Kimber:That said, a totally standard, you know, acquisition process would be that a book proposal comes to me first as the editor and then, as I kind of said before, like I'll look it over, I do my own research on it, I kind of go through a set of criteria that we like to look at. You know, like why is the content compelling, what's the author platform or sales track. You know what are the challenges or whatever that you foresee with it, just kind of like early, like top level questions that you would ask about any project that comes your way. If I like it, then I send it on to our editor editorial group to be discussed in a meeting that we have every week. That is, honestly, that's a fun meeting, just having like a bunch of editors because, again, like as I said before you do. Editors are like weird because we have to be creative but we also have to be thoughtful about the business side of things. And so we have like such a great group at Andrews McNeil. I always just get like feedback that I did not expect from them. And that's so great because you, you know, as as a I mean just as a human you really can't see every side of. Of. You know everything, and so it's just nice to have like so many different eyes on a project early on to say like, oh you know, did you think through this aspect of it? Or what about this? And the nice thing also is that I will bring things that I'm not 100% sold on. But another editor might be like, oh my gosh, I absolutely loved this and we'll pass it to them, which is great.
Hannah Kimber:It's a very open, casual environment where we really are rooting for each other and rooting for the books that come through that we really like. But yes, they will kind of bring up any issues, and that's usually when we kind of decide whether or not we want to ask for a revise and resubmit. It doesn't happen that that often. I know, lisa, you did a revise and resubmit for us. We only do it with books that we truly think have potential, because the last thing that we want to do is waste an author and agent's time, but also like waste our own time on a project that we don't necessarily we're not sure if it's viable. So I know, like revise and resubmit. I can imagine for myself if I got one of those. It would be exciting, but I also might be like, oh no, like what did I do wrong? But honestly, I think that's a better sign than not, because it is sort of something where you know again, we think it has potential. We're not going to waste your time asking you to rewrite something if we didn't think it had potential.
Hannah Kimber:So and so, after that extremely long weekly meeting, we do take it to, if it's greenlighted by the other editors, we take it to an acquisition meeting, and the acquisition meeting also happens every week and that has key people from sales and marketing in it as well as, like our, our CEO, who was just became our CEO a few months ago. She was previously our publisher, which is amazing to have like a CEO who is so in tune with like publishing. I mean because our, our company, is very like multifaceted and has a lot of different arms and so our previous CEO didn't really have his feet in publishing all that much. But it's been kind of awesome to have our once publisher now kind of be our CEO and I'm excited to see where the company goes. But all that aside, she is in that meeting, which does make it a little bit more intimidating to present those projects.
Hannah Kimber:But we do get feedback, in-depth feedback, from sales and marketing on challenges that they see. They do their own research on the author and the content and things like that and kind of bring us any you know concerns in that regard. And then if they green light it, then they give us projected sales numbers that we then use to run a profit and loss statement, which is like kind of a hypothetical, you know projected profit and loss. But that allows us to sort of see what the budget of the book can look like. And so once that is run and it looks clean and good and everything's in there because you know we'll also budget in things like a sensitivity read and an authenticity read if necessary, which we do, for we do a sensitivity read on all of our books and it just kind of depends on what the topic is if we have more than one, and then we'll also sort of figure out are we going to hire an illustrator and kind of discuss what the budget would look like for that as well, and all of that goes into the P&L so that we can kind of see a full financial picture of the book. And then, once the P&L is kind of run and a deal is approved by the CEO, the editor then makes the offer to the agent or author and then, of course, when the negotiations are finished and the main deal points are accepted, the contract goes out to be signed and that's when all the fun begins.
Hannah Kimber:You know which is book production and that can take anywhere from like one to three years, depending on the project and also depending on the strategy for release.
Hannah Kimber:And you know kind of what we discuss on our end on the business side of things, everything that goes into like timing and things like that. And I know at Lisa again, I keep using your book as an example, but it is a great example for this podcast. But you know you had your book like pretty much fully written but we were not prepared to release it until summer of 2024. And we had strategy around that too with, like the release of the Ghosts of Nameless Island and things like that. And we had strategy around that too, with like the release of the Ghosts of Nameless Island and things like that. And so there is a lot that, you know, goes into when things will be released and and things like that. But yeah, I mean, I have graphic novels that aren't coming out until 2026. And I acquired them in like 2022. So some things take a lot longer than other things, but yeah, that's that's why every book is different.
Beth McMullen:So there's a lot that's going on behind the scenes, right. So I feel like that's a great overview, because a lot of times, authors aren't aware of all this stuff, all these wheels that are turning in the background, and then people always say why does it take so long? Well, this is why it takes so long, especially if it's a seasonal book, like, for instance, you want it to come out at Halloween or Christmas time, or what speech read? So yeah, that is very, very interesting.
Lisa Schmid:One thing I wanted to ask. So when you take it to the editorial meeting, are you just pitching the story to everybody in that meeting, or you know how much of an insight do they have on?
Hannah Kimber:the book. So normally we will forward the materials that we have, and which is that's another reason that I say that having like a separate proposal document can be really key, because you know we're forwarding that and then we're putting kind of our own notes and thoughts in the email to send through. In our editorial meetings we're looking at everything from graphic novels with fully colored sample pages that are just like gorgeous and well thought out to more like concepts that don't have, you know, really any materials with them. Yet Every like when you know I say that like oh, we have all these book submissions come through. You know there's also all of the submissions that the editors send through for editorial.
Hannah Kimber:So I can't read everything. For, like that meeting and read books, you know what I mean. There's just like not enough time in the world to do that. So I do really rely a lot on like that meeting and read books. You know what I mean. There's just like not enough time in the world to do that. So I do really rely a lot on like that proposal document to really tell me, like, what do I need to know? Like what are the top line things about this book, and then you know if it's interesting from the, I do usually try to read at least several pages, if not a chapter, of like manuscripts that come through for editorial, just so that I can get a sense of like the writing and stuff like that.
Hannah Kimber:And I'm talking like from other editors. But but that's why the proposal document is really important, because again, there's that's really the pitch of the book, you know, and that's what we're using as editors in that meeting as well, to say like here's what it is. You know, and if that pitch document isn't there, that proposal document isn't there, we kind of have to come up with that ourselves. And that can take a lot of time and effort, which we'll put in, you know, like we'll do it. But it's just so much more of a load off when it's like okay, we know they've thought through it already and we can just kind of start from the top and talk about issues that we see or challenges or whatever, and and talk about the good points as well.
Beth McMullen:So that actually leads pretty nicely to this next question. You talked about sensitivity readers. Are there any topics because you're doing middle grade and ya are there any topics that you steer clear of, things that you just do not want to deal with, do not want to touch for whatever reason?
Hannah Kimber:No? Short answer. No, there are certain topics as editors that we might feel more comfortable with another editor having, but I don't just automatically shut down a book because it has the topic of X, y or Z. That being said, as like our publishing house, specifically Andrews McNeil, we do. You know our tagline is Andrews McNeil, kids, have all the fun. We like fun books, we like the slice of life like inspirational, humorous. That is really kind of like our bread and butter as a publishing house.
Hannah Kimber:We're not going to not look at topics that are sensitive or dark or difficult because, truthfully, kids go through these things like, unfortunately, more than we know, you know, and if you can have a book that really sensitively and authentically points out these topics and allows a kid to either relate to that or empathize with that, that's so important for their, you know, formation as a human in general. So I would never say no to a topic that came up. But again, like you kind of have to think about like what publishing house is looking at, what you know like, what are the publishing houses that are really doing like very serious topics on kids' books and which ones are like putting serious topics into books that are do have that overarching theme of, like you know, more sort of inspirational and humorous and fun, and I think that you can have both of those things in one book, but obviously, like they just have different tones, right. So that is something to think about too is, like you know, if you're looking at a publisher and they're doing really serious things, you know like your humor book might not fit into that, right. And like at Andrews McNeil, if you're looking at like a really serious, like it's a serious, like memoir or something, it might not fit in there. You know, and we're looking at things that yes, we want to push our list forward and we always want to be like kind of strategizing and figure out like what's the next step, like what's going to push us forward, but also like we don't want something to be just like standing out so starkly against the rest of what we have, like we want to have this kind of brand image and things like that. And so you know, you kind of have to think about it in.
Hannah Kimber:In you have to put yourself in the publisher position in some of those ways too. And I think if I were an author that were pitching a proposal, I would pitch it to everyone, just to see if it would stick Right, like I mean, I think and I always tell people, because when I meet with agents and we're not talking about a particular proposal they ask, like you know, is there anything that you don't like to see? And I'm like no, I mean, I would love to see everything, because sometimes it is one of those things where it's like it doesn't seem like it does, but it fits so you know. So no, there's nothing that I don't think, that you know. We're not automatically like, oh no, that deals with that. We can't, we can't do that.
Hannah Kimber:I will say that obviously we do look at things like is the topic and again, I work in kids, so I can really only speak from the kids perspective but is the topic dealt with appropriately for the age group? Of course, like you have to be looking into that. Is the content appropriate? Is is it, you know, dealt with in a way that makes sense for kids, and especially for kids that are just reading a book, right, like we don't. They don't need to be, like you know, scared or whatever.
Hannah Kimber:And then, of course, we always look at I mean, I always try to look at too like is the author coming from a place of authenticity and sensitivity to the topic. I think like one thing about writing and being an author, or just being a creative in general, is like the beauty of being able to put yourself in different situations and use your imagination and write about things. And I think that's why we have such a big emphasis on sensitivity readers and authenticity readers, because we just want to make sure that like, yes, not every author can have every experience in the world, but if they're writing about it, is it from a place that's authentic and sensitive and that you know makes sense for people reading it. It doesn't, you know, alienate them or or make them feel, you know, like it's. It's not coming from a place of sensitivity.
Lisa Schmid:So and I agree with that. I, you know there's certain topics that, um, there was one specific topic and I won't really talk about it, but in the book that I wanted to touch on, but I didn't know, I didn't have the experience to write about it enough, but I wanted to highlight it in a way that people would say, okay, she, you know, the author recognizes this is out there, and so you know, I think it's all you know from an author's point of view, knowing when you should touch on something, or maybe when you shouldn't, because it's good to have lived it or at least have some experience, because it does come across more authentically in that sense, Absolutely, yeah. So you've already said a lot about this, but is there not in a bad way, good way?
Hannah Kimber:No, no, yeah, I feel like I start talking and I stop.
Lisa Schmid:I probably came out all wrong. Anyway, I was just gonna say is there any piece of advice you give again and again to the authors you work with? So I guess that is different from all the advice that you have just given us. Like when you're working with, I don't know, Lisa Schmid, what is the advice that that you give, give to to your authors? Besides, calm down and trust the process and it's going to be okay?
Hannah Kimber:I think those are all things you said to me. It's literally like the top thing. That's like I say to everyone, so not just Lisa Schmidt.
Lisa Schmid:I say that to everyone so it it's.
Hannah Kimber:It's scary to take your book and put it out there and have other people have their hands on it. But I think, just remembering that we are out there for your success we want it just as much as you do, I think can have a tendency to want to keep hold of their art, and that's totally natural. Like, of course, because it's super vulnerable. You know, to write something and to pour your heart into something and pour so much work into it. It's vulnerable to then like let it out and I think, like Lisa, you probably agree that it's almost more vulnerable to do it in the beginning, like with the publisher, than it is to like have it be released to the wider public. I don't know if that's, but it's like when the book is still being formed and you have, like, this idea in your head of what it is and you kind of have to like let in other people that are saying, like, but what if just a little bit of this? And what if a little bit of this? You know, and so, yeah, I do. You know, try to tell my all my authors, you know, trust, trust the process, of course, trust in that we are out there for your success. But also, like if you feel strongly about something you know, like about the art or any of like the edits or something with like the marketing or whatever like speak up and tell us that Andrews MacMillan is kind of unique because we are very like creator first, and you know, we really do everything with like the creator in mind and we want them to have a say in every step of the process. Like I can't speak for other publishing houses I know it doesn't necessarily look like that in other publishing houses, at least for us, at least for me, you know like I want the author to speak up, like sooner rather than later, if something they feel really strongly about. But I also want to tell them like hey, trust us a little bit. You know like like we also have ideas that have worked in the past, like we've done it time and time again. We're doing it over and over again, you know. And so, yeah, I think just trust is a big thing. It's hard and I'm I'm a creative person as well, and so I know like when you are like ready to like perform or have someone read your writing or, you know, whatever your creative outlet is like it's, that part is scary because it's it belongs to you, but then you put it out there and it starts to belong to other people too. But that's also the beauty of art. And so I think, trusting your editor, trusting, you know, your agent, trusting your publisher, trusting yourself as well, you know just kind of that all around feeling of like it's going to start to belong to other people and that's okay. That's the beauty of it.
Hannah Kimber:And then another kind of like more tangible thing that I always have to remind well, not have to, but I always like to remind authors about is like a lot of the decisions that we make as a publisher are about like timing and strategy as well. And just, you know, kind of reminding authors that, like we are, you know again, like we're out there for their success and we're thinking through a lot of the like. It might not make sense because, like authors don't have a full picture of, like every single project that we're working with, but you know, strategy and timing is like. I feel like that's the majority of what publishing is about, you know, I mean, I want to say that like as a creative and as an editor, I want to, I want to say that publishing is always about like, oh my gosh, like I just absolutely loved this book, like we have to have it, you know.
Hannah Kimber:But sometimes it's like I absolutely love this book but it's so similar to other things that are out there, so I just don't think it's right for us right now, right. So strategy and timing is a big thing and and it it does hurt us to have to reject books that are that we love. You know that's that does not feel good, that's like the worst part about the job is doing that. And so I think, just remembering, because you're very siloed when you're writing the book, you might have your writer group or whatever, which is amazing, but once you sell the book or whatever, as it's getting published, you become not as siloed, and that transition can be hard for authors, and so I do. You know, I think it's funny because I give advice, a lot of different advice, to a lot of like two different authors, depending on what they need. But I would say that's the piece that I continually have to give in like one direction or another is just like remember, we're all on the same side here.
Beth McMullen:Like we want it to be just, like we want it to be amazing, you know we want it just as badly as they do, so yeah, that's good advice, definitely, cause you're right, you're in your little, you know writing Heidi hole and you forget that at some point it's going to fly out there and other people are going to talk to you about it and I think after you do a book or two you know it's coming, so it's not such a shock. But I think for debut authors sometimes that can be a little bit of a rude awakening, where you're suddenly you go from being very alone to being part of a group and I mean it's great that you're telling them continuously we're on the same team, like my success is your success and the reverse, so that's really great. One last question for you what are you looking for right now to round out your list, if anything?
Hannah Kimber:Yeah, actually I really liked this question and I was thinking about it as I was going to sleep last night because I was like, what am I looking for? I don't feel like I'm looking for anything in particular outside of like the my normal kind of topics and formats at the moment. Part of that is just because, personally, I've been sort of taken up by, you know, I got married two weeks ago and so I'm sort of just feel like I'm reentering fully with my brain, like this world and you know, being able to focus full time again on everything has been has gotten me thinking about you know what it is I want to look for next and things like that. But I think nothing in particular outside of my normal topics and formats. I was thinking about as I was going to sleep last night how, like especially in kids books and I can't again like I can't really speak to adult books, but I do think there is something to be said about adult books too.
Hannah Kimber:I think it's really important to look at like trends, you know, and what are the trends that are up and coming? So they're not trendy yet, but like what's going to be the next big thing? And I hate like the next big thing, tm. Like no, I hate that, but like I think that the most the authors that are really like doing the best and most successful stuff out there are like really talking to the kids in their lives and really observing what they're doing and figuring out what it is that they are interested in or doing and experimenting with that. Like there are so many things that you think like I mean, and I mean I'm not, like I'm not really on social media that much, like I don't really partake. It's just better for me if I'm like I'm more calm if I'm off it, you know, but I'm definitely like one of those old farts that I'm like what are those kids up to these days? Like you know all the kids like whatever dancing on TikTok or you know whatever they're doing. But, that being said, like I always I have six nieces and nephews who are all like early teen to late teen age and I always make it a point to like really really talk to them. You know, don't like I don't talk to them like an adult, but I just want to hear, like you know, what are they doing and I want to like watch them, to like what are they? You know, like I follow some of them on social media and so if I do get on to like Instagram or whatever, I will see, like you know, what they're posting and stuff, and and that really helps, because kids are are truly defining what becomes trendy for us as adults.
Hannah Kimber:As much as people want to, like, make fun of teenagers and like middle schoolers, they are literally defining what our culture is going to look like next. And you know, we can say like, oh well, that you know whatever. Like, oh, video games. But like there are people out there who make money on streaming their video games and we have books about that now because kids are interested in that. And I think, like not discounting the interests of kids, you know, and things like that, not saying like, oh, that's so silly, like that'll never be a thing, because it will be if kids are interested in it, it will be a thing, and so I just think, like you know, in the last few years we've identified light horror as a trend and now look like Lisa's book is coming out and it's just scary enough, right, like and so, and there's a lot of stuff that's that's slated to be coming out like that or coming out like that right now, and so identifying trends early on and not being afraid to experiment with those trends and figure out, how can you turn it into a story.
Hannah Kimber:That's so fun and that's part of the stuff that I just love to read about, and especially when an author can do it and they can turn it into something that is like a more classic story.
Hannah Kimber:Like Lisa with your book, you know you really took like the just scary enough, like the kind of kids horror thing, but you put it into a story that's like pretty timeless, like ghosts come back and haunt, Like you know but you managed to do it in a story that's like pretty timeless, like ghosts come back and haunt, like you know but you managed to do it in a way that I think brings in you know what kids like topics that kids are are dealing with today and and again, like that kind of just spooky enough escapism.
Hannah Kimber:That is what you really want. You know, when you're, when you're creating kids books, I think, like you really want to make sure that you're creating something that can distract them from those screens, because they are on them all the time and it's really, you know, we used to use the words like reluctant reader, but we've kind of pivoted to saying the distracted reader because there's just so many, even for us as adults, there's so many distractions out there now. There's just so many, even for us as adults there's so many distractions out there now, and so it's kind of like identifying what kids are truly interested in, you know, and going from there and again like not being afraid to experiment because on like off the top of your head, if you hear people are making money by streaming video games, like that doesn't seem like there could be a story there. But there definitely can be. We obviously know that now but, like you know, some trends just seem so fleeting.
Beth McMullen:But I think not being afraid to kind of take those and play around with them. I like that. I'm actually listening to the kids, just, you know, almost standing outside of it, watching what is compelling to them, what is capturing their attention. I think about this all the time. That our competition is the little handheld device that everybody's got their face buried in and to peel people away from that has become a huge hurdle for those of us who write books. So you capture something that has their attention, that you can then bring them to the page. I think that's a really interesting way for people to think about trends. It's got a lot of angles to it. Yeah, this has been a really great conversation. Like I feel like there's so much in here that people can take away and actually do. We love episodes that have practical advice. So, hannah, thank you so much for being here and sharing all of this with us today. We are super grateful.
Hannah Kimber:Of course. It was fun and I'm I'm looking forward to seeing you know, maybe some of the listeners submissions in my inbox in the future or something, and again like it, yeah, it's hard, publishing is hard.
Beth McMullen:We know tattoo that on our foreheads. Publishing is hard, it is hard.
Hannah Kimber:Yeah, it's hard. It's hard for authors, it's hard for editors to like. You know it's. It's definitely not an easy or objective thing, but that's not. That's, that's why we do it, that's why we love it.
Beth McMullen:So and we are here, lisa and I, to pump everybody up and make them feel confident about doing it. So they are going to listen to this episode, they're going to take lots of notes and they're going to be ready to roll, and listeners visit the podcast notes because all of these details will be there about this episode, or swing by the blog at writerswithwrinklesnet and you can find all of the stuff that we've talked about, all of the good takeaways, and we will see everybody again next week, july 15th, with a brand new episode. And until then, happy reading, writing and listening.
