Cracking the Code: Middle Grade & YA Publishing Secrets with managing editor Meg Gaertner

In this episode of Writers with Wrinkles, Beth McMullen and Lisa Schmid talk with Meg Gaertner, managing editor of fiction at North Star Editions. Meg shares insights into middle grade and young adult publishing, the acquisitions process, and trends shaping the industry.

Guest Bio

Meg Gaertner is the managing editor of fiction at North Star Editions, acquiring titles for the Jolly Fish Press and Flux imprints. She is passionate about publishing books that expand perspectives, increase representation, and tackle complex topics with nuance. Her authors have received starred reviews, won awards, and made a lasting impact on young readers.

Key Discussion Points

• Middle Grade Market Trends: The growing demand for books targeting 13- to 15-year-old readers, the dominance of graphic novels, and the push for shorter middle grade books to compete with screen time.
• YA Market Trends: The continued popularity of "romantasy," the possible resurgence of dystopian fiction, and the enduring appeal of thrillers.
• The Acquisition Process: A deep dive into how North Star Editions evaluates and selects books, from submission to final approval.
• The Importance of Query Letters: Meg emphasizes the value of a well-structured query and how it signals an author's professionalism and commitment.
• Marketing & Author Collaboration: Why North Star Editions treats every book as a lead title and how an author's engagement can impact promotional support.
• Advice for Writers: “Less is more”—Meg encourages authors to streamline their writing to enhance pacing and emotional impact.

Conclusion

Meg Gaertner provides a rare behind-the-scenes look at the publishing process, offering invaluable advice for aspiring and experienced authors. From market trends to acquisition strategies, her insights help demystify the path to publication.

Mentioned Links

• Learn more about North Star Editions: northstareditions.com
• Connect with Writers with Wrinkles: writerswithwrinkles.net
• Follow Beth McMullen and Lisa Schmid on social media for updates and Q&A opportunities.

Transcript

00:00:00              BETH MCMULLEN

Hi friends, I'm Beth McMullen. And I'm Lisa Schmid. And we're the co -hosts of Writers with Wrinkles. This is season four, episode five. Today, we're excited to welcome Meg Gartner to the show. Meg is the managing editor of fiction at North Star Editions, where she acquires middle grade and young adult titles for the Jolly Fish Press and Flux imprints. Her authors and their books have earned starred reviews, won awards, and made recommended reading lists around the country. and more importantly, have touched young people's lives, inspiring and empowering them as dreamers and change makers. She is excited to work on books across all genres that expand perspectives, increase representation, broaden imaginations, and explore challenging topics with nuance and care. Thank you so much for joining us today, Meg. We are very excited to have you here.

00:00:50              LISA SCHMID

Thank you so much for inviting me on the show. I'm super excited to be here. Okay, so I'm just going to jump in right away. And so my first book, Holly Oxley and the Ghost, was published through Jolly Fish Press. And so I just wanted to do like a little love fest for you guys before we started talking. So just to kind of a jumping off point, the way I got my book deal was through a Twitter pitch party. I don't know if you remember those years ago. But I pitched it and I got one like and my wonderful editor, Carlissa Kramer,

00:01:20              MEG GAERTNER

if you remember

00:01:28              LISA SCHMID

the person who liked it. And so then I went through about six months of acquisitions and I was not agented. And but it was, you know, it was kind of a scary process going through that. But the minute I signed my contract with you guys, within the first week, I had a email from Mari Kesselring, who is the managing editor whose place. whose position you swooped in after she went on to, she got, she went someplace else. That sounds so, so mean. Like you started in and took it. Presented that all wrong, but you took Mari's place. But she sent me an email right away. And in that email was a full publishing schedule to the date of everything that was going to happen over my time with Jollyfish, as far as my edits, as far as. cover design, just everything to a T. And you guys stuck to that schedule. You never veered off of it. And everything happened the way it should have been. My editorial experience with Carly was amazing. I learned so much and she was a joy to work with. Everybody at Jolly Fish was a joy to work with, to the PR department, just everything. And even to this day, years later, it's been five years since Ollie Oxley's been out. But you guys still are out there promoting it like at Halloween or I've seen it show up at pictures at conferences. I'm like, oh my gosh, is that Ollie Oxley on the table at the conference? And then still reach out to me for blurbs. And so it's just this lovely relationship that continues. So I just wanted to give a big shout out to you guys. How professional and how I imagine every publisher should be.

00:03:12              MEG GAERTNER

I mean, thank you so much. But I'm just thrilled that that was your experience. I think we... We know we're a small press, but we are just so enthusiastic about the books and the authors we take on. And that is the experience that we hope to give to them. So I'm thrilled that it worked out that way for you. So thank you for sharing all that. You can tell by Lisa's sort of shock that a lot of the stories that we hear on this show are not like,

00:03:30              BETH MCMULLEN

sharing all

00:03:33              BETH MCMULLEN

sort of shock that a lot of the stories that we hear on this show are not like, everything was so amazing. It's more like, oh my goodness, what happened? So it's gratifying to know.

00:03:38              MEG GAERTNER

are not

00:03:46              BETH MCMULLEN

That there are publishing houses out there that are doing things exactly as they should be done. And then everybody comes out at the end feeling positive and happy and successful. It's all very good. So Lisa's book was middle grade, right? And middle grade, we have a lot of middle grade listeners on this show. And we've been hearing, you know, through various channels over the last year or so, that middle grade is kind of in this valley, let's say. in terms of sales and acquisitions. So, and then, you know, of course you hear on the other side, these things are always cyclical. This just happens the way it is. This is nothing unusual. So we wanted to get your take on what you feel like is happening in that middle grade market right now.

00:04:29              MEG GAERTNER

Yeah. So I don't really have specific genre or topic trends that I've noticed, except that graphic novels remain hot. And I think that has to do with the competition that books are facing with screen time, particularly for this age range. But I think more of the conversation I'm seeing in middle grade is centering around who middle grade books are for. Specifically, I'm seeing a lot of discussion about the need for more books for 13 to 15 year olds. And the gist of the argument is that we currently have middle grade books where the typical protagonist might be 11 or 12 years old. And then we have YA books, which across the board are skewing way older. featuring late teen protagonists and much more mature themes, and arguably for some of them being written for adult readers, actually. And so there's this real gap in the literature of stories that feature 8th and 9th or 10th grader protagonists with all of the relevant themes and concerns for that age group. And that we know this is a very specific developmental period and transitional period that kids go through. And it's just not widely represented in kidlit. And so I think we're seeing a demand for these books across all the genres, romance, horror, murder mysteries, action, sports, humor, you name it. The other thing that I'm seeing in middle grade is a desire for shorter books. I've seen word counts of middle grade submissions creeping up into the 70 or 80 ,000s or even higher. Yes, yes. But shorter books are really more appealing for this age group, especially considering, as I said, the fierce competition that they have with screen time. So I think we're looking at a desire for books in more in the 200s for page count or in the 60 ,000s or lower for word count.

00:06:17              LISA SCHMID

And I've mentioned it before, when we were, I was at ALA last summer. And what we kept hearing from librarians was, Shorter word count, 35 to 45 is kind of the sweet spot that they're really looking for with middle grade. Because like, as you said, their attention spans are somewhat shorter and there's such competition with their screen time. So I have to imagine that you're going to see that kind of that shift, hopefully. I hope so. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, that's... I even feel like 60 ,000, 50, 60 ,000 for a middle grade is kind of high.

00:06:58              BETH MCMULLEN

Yeah. I feel like it's high for me as an adult lately. I mean, my attention span is really short too. So I can imagine for kids, I just, I feel like 80 ,000 would be, it's, that's a lot for a kid book.

00:07:11              MEG GAERTNER

Yeah, absolutely. And probably the 60 ,000 is maybe more toward, more for that 12 to 15 year old. reader that I was mentioning, which I've heard that group categorized as upper middle grade or maybe young teen lit, kind of that transitional period.

00:07:30              LISA SCHMID

I like the young teen lit title, like the label of that, because it's such a weird, awkward phase that nothing, there never seems to be that market for that group. So I'm glad to see that emerging. It's a good thing.

00:07:43              BETH MCMULLEN

Awkward title for an awkward age. I mean, it's like the most awkward age.

00:07:47              LISA SCHMID

it's like the most awkward age. It kind of fits. So what's happening? You do your Alto of Rip Flux. What's happening in YA? What's hot this year? What's not? What's trending? What are you guys looking for?

00:08:02              MEG GAERTNER

Yeah, and I will have to give the disclaimer that I think what tends to be trending in the wider... YA sphere tends not to be what we're looking for. So what's hot in YA generally, I think, is, you know, romanticcy is going to continue to be popular or really any cross -genre stories that combine like a strong romantic through line with the tropes of another genre. I've heard that dystopian might be making a comeback. It certainly has on the adult side, for I think maybe reasons we can all understand. I don't see thrillers losing steam. And I'd say, you know, in general, we would be open to those as well, though I make it clear to agents submitting to me that I'm not not a great fit for your romance storylines or even romance as a major plot subplots. OK, no romance at all or platonic friendships. That's all OK as well. But romance, hardcore romance, I'm not that interested in. But for us, I think we we tend to enjoy. cross -genre work or contemporary with timely social themes or historical fiction that highlights underrepresented experiences. I think part of being a smaller press is knowing what we are particularly good at selling and at marketing. And so these tend to be the sort of stories that we have found to be our niche.

00:09:30              LISA SCHMID

Yeah. And you guys, you do garner a lot of awards and a lot of starred reviews. And so I'm always over here applauding. I love seeing all the success at Jollyfish and Influx and it's all well -deserved. And you guys do go out on the limb and publish some really, really interesting topics, really interesting stories, not something that you might see at a larger house. So kudos. Thank you.

00:09:58              BETH MCMULLEN

So thinking about all the many authors out there who are listening, who are preparing to submit, or they're working with an agent preparing to submit, what can they do in your mind to make their submissions stand out in a very, very crowded field?

00:10:17              MEG GAERTNER

Yeah. And so I was wracking my brain around this question, because I think it is such a key question for a lot of authors. Unfortunately, the answer I'm going to give is just really simple, which is that the submissions that stand out to me in a good way are the ones that follow the standard query letter format, which, you know, when you think about it, the goal of the query letter is to give an agent or an editor all of the important information and enticing details of the manuscript to condense it to its most compelling essence as quickly and concisely as possible. And there is really one format that does this the best and writers can find templates for it and blogs about it all over the internet. But that basic format, you know, just quickly is your salutation, dear agent or editor, a metadata sentence right at the top that includes all the key stats of the book, such as word count, age category, genre, if it's standalone versus part of a series, what the title is, followed by two to three paragraphs for the book's pitch, followed by... three plus comparative titles from the past five years, an author bio with relevant publication or writing history, and then a quick closing, you know, thank you for your time and consideration, all on one single spaced page, short and sweet. And the reason I think this query letter format has such staying power is that it is just so clear to read. I know exactly where to look to find the information I'm seeking. And it's also professional. It shows me that this author has done some research into querying best practices, which in turn tells me that this author is invested in this whole getting published business. They're invested in this story. They're putting their best foot forward and giving this manuscript its best shot. And that in turn makes me more confident that the submission itself, the actual sample chapters, will have been beta read and revised and proofread because this is an author who is taking this process, taking their own work seriously. So when I receive a submission that follows this format and does it well, assuming, of course, that the submission itself isn't a genre that we publish, then I will definitely give that submission a closer look.

00:12:31              LISA SCHMID

That's a great answer. And that moves really well into the next question, which moves to the acquisition process with Jollyfish and Flux. I know it's always just a little bit different every time we talk to an editor because we always ask this question, what's your acquisitions process? I kind of know what it is, but I would love for you to tell everybody what your process is over at North Star and Jollyfish and Bloss.

00:13:03              MEG GAERTNER

Yeah, I'll start by giving the disclaimer that I can only speak to our process here at North Star Editions, but I have no reason to think it's that. terribly different from what goes on elsewhere. But if I find a manuscript that I absolutely love, that fits our imprint brand and is a great fit for our list, that I'm confident we could sell, that I have a clear editorial vision for, I will first notify the author or the agent, if there is one, of my interest in bringing the book to acquisitions. And then I start filling out this very detailed form that we helpfully call the acquisition form that guides the pitch I will eventually give to the team. And this form includes a lot of the information that should already be in the original query letter. So things like age, category and genre, word count, one line pitch, short summary, author bio. But it also asks for additional information such as a long plot summary. It includes the strengths of the manuscript, which would be my argument for why the book is fantastic and why we need to acquire it and how we as a publishing company are poised to just really get this book out there. The book, the form also includes the manuscript edits needed. So which would be all of the big picture changes that I would want to make with the author to make the book the best it can be. And then finally, the form includes information about the author's online presence, if there is one, and the author's interest in participating in marketing the book. And so, as you can tell, some of this information is stuff that I would need the author or the agent's help in filling out. So when I let authors and agents know that I'm interested in bringing their manuscript to acquisitions, I'll ask for that long plot summary if they haven't provided it already. I'll also share those revision notes, those kind of big picture notes that I see for the manuscript with the author right off the bat, because I want to make sure that the author and I are on the same page and have the same editorial vision for this book. Because if we can figure out right away, our visions just don't align, then great. We can part amicably and know that. This just wasn't a good fit. And that's totally fine. In other cases, you know, me sending these notes will prompt the agent to want to set up a call between me and the author so we can discuss them further. And in other cases, the agent comes back with, you know, yes, the author is totally on board with this direction and we move forward from there. And then finally, during this email, I will also ask the author to respond to a series of questions we have gauging the author's interest in and willingness to promote their own book. And this I find is important for us as a small press, where we are excited to work with authors who are excited to work with us in the publicity and marketing process. And specifically, we're eager to support the activities that an author is already interested in doing to promote their book, rather than imposing a strict marketing plan on them that might not feel true or authentic to who they are and how they want to show up for their readers. So these marketing questions are really there to help us see what kind of partner the author would be and what ideas they have for their book's promotion. Once I receive all of this information back from the author and finish filling out that form, I will set up the first acquisition meeting. And we always do two meetings at North Star Editions. The first focuses on the merits of the story itself. So at this meeting, I am pitching the manuscript to other editors and to the marketing team. and getting their feedback on what they see as the strengths of the manuscript, what additional edits they would recommend, if they see any issues. And at the end of the meeting, everyone gives their final opinion of yes or no for acquiring the manuscript, which would then, assuming everyone agrees this manuscript is worth acquiring, prompts me to set up a second meeting where we more specifically focus on marketing considerations and the book's budget. And this budget is... basically my proposal for what the final product, the printed book, would look like and cost. And so for this, I'm specifying hardcover versus paperback, the retail price, the trim size, or which would be the width and height of the book, the page count, a proposed first print run, advance in royalties. And I should say a lot of these figures are based on precedent and on what we've done for past manuscripts in that same age category. I will also include fees for a copy editor, proofreader, illustrator. content consultant, sensitivity reader, if applicable. And I give an estimate for what the printing costs might look like and shipping costs based on the most recent printer quotes we've received for books with a similar page count and trim size. And I enter all of this information into a budget template, which helpfully does all the math for me and spits out the total cost to acquire, develop, and print the book, what the estimated profit would be, assuming we sell out the first print run. And what the break -even units would be, which would be the number of units of the book we would have to sell to just recoup what the publisher spent on the book. And I present this budget at the second acquisition meeting. And assuming it all looks good and fits into the company's budget and financial plans, we finalize the details of the offer we're going to make. And I get to make the offer. And that's kind of the acquisition process in a nutshell.

00:18:15              BETH MCMULLEN

It's amazing. It's amazing how... complicated it is. I don't think people,

00:18:15              MEG GAERTNER

amazing.

00:18:20              BETH MCMULLEN

writers, especially new writers, even those of us who have been around for a while, appreciate how much is going on from the point of an editor saying, I'm interested in your book to your book actually hitting the shelf. I mean, it's just, there are so many details and so much consideration into that producing that final product. It's kind of amazing to me.

00:18:43              MEG GAERTNER

Yeah, definitely. And I think, I think too, it's, you know, I don't. I don't expect authors to care about the company's bottom line or anything, and they shouldn't. Their goal is to see it. But they should appreciate how much work editors are doing that doesn't involve looking at their manuscript,

00:18:54              BETH MCMULLEN

is to see it. But they should appreciate how much work editors are doing that doesn't involve looking at their manuscript, right? I mean, sometimes you think an editor's only job is to fix this manuscript when an editor's job covers a wide range of responsibilities toward making that book a successful... actual real printed book. So I think that's worth noting that that editing of your actual manuscript is only part of a much larger process. So, you know, I find the whole thing super intimidating.

00:19:29              MEG GAERTNER

It is interesting thinking about my schedule, how, you know, obviously I do a lot of editing, but for sure that's not, I wouldn't even say that that's the bulk of what I actually do as an editor.

00:19:42              BETH MCMULLEN

No, I totally believe it. It's a lot of project management.

00:19:47              BETH MCMULLEN

So we were talking recently, I can't even remember who we were talking with about this, but about how publishers will select a couple of titles that they want for their lead off titles for that season or that catalog. How does that selection process work with? you guys and what additional resources do you end up throwing toward that title that you've selected as your lead title for that season?

00:20:13              MEG GAERTNER

Yeah, so, and again, I can only speak for North Star Editions here, but we don't actually choose lead titles for each season. And I think the reason is because we publish so few titles to begin with, it doesn't really make sense for us to differentiate our books in that way. Or I guess another way of putting it is, Each book is a lead title for us. Each book is such an investment that we have to go wholeheartedly forward on all of them. That said, approaching each book equally does not mean treating them the exact same way or doing the exact same activities for each of them. So while all of our books receive the same standard marketing opportunities, Additional promotions would be decided on a case -by -case basis and really tailored to what makes the most sense for each particular book. So, for example, a promotion could be based on anticipating that a book will do particularly well in a certain market or among certain readers. And so we'll do a special promotion to help us access those readers. Or another promotion for a different book could be based on us wanting to actually give a boost to a book that we think is underperforming. It's kind of the same thing with award submissions, where we don't have a one -size -fits -all policy where every book is submitted to the exact same list of awards. That doesn't make sense because different awards are going to have different submission requirements or they lean towards certain genres or topics. So there are two. We aren't treating each book the exact same, but we are committed to treating each book as a lead title for us. I would say that if a book does happen to get additional resources from us, be it... marketing or sales energy or money, it would actually be based on how active the author is in promoting their book. So as I've said before, we are very interested in supporting the activities that an author is most excited to do to connect with their readers. And so if an author comes to us wanting to be on this panel at this conference or host these book signings or get their book selected for these school -wide or community -wide readings or what have you, we will do what we can to support those activities. And if that means supplying the books themselves and making sure they get shipped out or being in contact with those schools and communities, again, to make sure those books are there when they need to be, we're going to do what we can to support that. And so while all of our books are submitted to the relevant awards, long lead reviewers, have book launches and cover reveals and social media tours and such. When an author comes to us with a proposal for something additional, we're going to support that as best we can. And that might in the end mean that certain books are getting more marketing time or money from us than others, but that's an author -driven phenomenon. That's not something we are imposing or engineering ourselves.

00:23:08              LISA SCHMID

It's amazing. And that was my experience with Jollyfish. I know that anytime I ever went to... Taylor, who's the PR and marketing gal, who's wonderful. She never said no, which was, it was really nice. And so, and I do appreciate also how you continued, like I said, to market your books. I always, I see you continually doing that. So I love that you're more, you collaborate more with authors and are open to different ideas and suggestions. That's exciting. And it's exciting for authors to hear that.

00:23:46              LISA SCHMID

Yeah. So going off topic to something else, which is dark topics or controversial topics, is there anything that you as a small press or a smaller press veer away from that you're just like, that's maybe too much for us? Because you guys do take on some different, very different themes and issues in your book. So is there anything that you feel like, you know what, that's too much for us?

00:24:15              MEG GAERTNER

No, I think. Yeah, I strongly believe as a middle grade YA editor, I strongly believe that young people can handle dark and controversial topics in fiction if they are written in an age appropriate and thoughtful way. We know young people experience controversy and darkness in their lives. And I think one thing literature can do really well is reflect those experiences and help readers feel seen and understood and not so alone. So no, we don't shy away from any particular topics. And actually, I would say we tend to really like those books that go there, you know, if they do so in a way that's accessible for young readers. I think that's specifically on my wishlist that I send out to agents and have on manuscriptwishlist .com is send us those darker topics.

00:25:06              BETH MCMULLEN

I love that. That's great. Is there any one piece of advice that you end up giving to your stable of authors over and over and over again?

00:25:16              MEG GAERTNER

Yeah, so editorial advice, I would say less is more, often said as an apology or an explanation when I send back manuscripts with lots of line edits, or I'm trimming text to streamline scenes or cut repetition or tighten up the language for pacing and emotional effect. I do think there is a tendency for some writers to overwrite. And I think this is often because they want to make sure that a reader understands the emotional tension in a scene or what have you, or maybe it's because the author just loves language and wants to luxuriate and beautiful turns of phrase on the page. And I think it's my job as an editor to say, okay, we get it. As beautifully written as this paragraph or sentence is, we don't need it. The reader doesn't need it to understand and it actually... oftentimes can slow down the scene or detract from the reader's experience. And I think that's what a good editor or a good beta reader can do for an author is redirect the author's attention to the reader's experience of a story. And I think it's also really important for an author to leave space for their readers to participate in the story, to feel their own feelings, to have their own reactions. And readers can't do that if everything is spelled out so obviously or clearly or repetitively for them. So I have I have most often, I think, said less is more to my authors as my editorial advice.

00:26:40              LISA SCHMID

Feeling really uncomfortable right now, Meg, because I feel like you're speaking to me. I just, just pushing up a middle grade and I really like was trying to keep it down. I have it like it's about 36 ,000 words, but I found like, as I was going back through it. I was like, wow, I'm really just dragging sentences out. And I just went through and was almost cutting stuff, just like wildfire. I'm like, you're going, you're going, this is so unnecessary. But I just, I feel so bad because I've talked about, I've sent it over to my agent already. And I'm like, oh, Leslie, I'm sorry.

00:27:23              MEG GAERTNER

Well, and I do think this is one of those parts of writing that can be a writer's blind spot. I think even if you know you're an overwriter or might suspect you're an overwriter, you are still in many cases going to need a beta reader or an editor to be able to point out and come to the work from the reader's experience of,

00:27:33              LISA SCHMID

an overwriter

00:27:37              MEG GAERTNER

still in many cases going to need a beta reader or an editor to be able to point out and come to the work from the reader's experience of, I don't know what's going on. I don't know this story inside and out. So I'm just going to let you know, hey, you were really clear here. I don't actually need this stuff. Or, hey, you weren't quite so clear here. Maybe you can add a bit more. Yeah, I think our authors will always need that outside feedback.

00:28:04              LISA SCHMID

Yeah, I sent it back over to a friend of mine that's reading it. And I keep highlighting little things. And I'm like, oh, I love how this is. But I'm like, I would just highlight it. And I'm like, delete, question mark. Delete, question mark. It's like, I really like it, but it probably doesn't need to be there. So that is really good advice. And now I'm going to go back again. And cut some more out. I had an editor at Simon & Schuster.

00:28:32              BETH MCMULLEN

had an editor at Simon & Schuster. This was for one of my adult books a bunch of years ago. And she would go through with the red pen and she would just slash stuff out. And she would just write, doesn't serve the plot, doesn't do anything. And I was like, but it sounds really good. And she was like, I just don't care that it sounds good. That is. Like it all needs to sound good, but this part needs to go anyway. And I swear when I edit, when I revise my own stuff, I hear her voice in my head, clear as a bell, telling me to just be brutal on what stays. Because I think what you take away is as important as what you leave. So it's quite, it's daunting that she's still with me 10 years later.

00:29:23              LISA SCHMID

That's awesome. This is such good advice for everyone, whether it's middle grade or YA or adult fiction, because we do tend to, we think we're so clever when we're writing. And then somebody else comes in and they're just like, it's not that clever. And so it just, it is, you know, you're just like, there goes all those words. Oh my God, there goes some more, but. I think in middle grade, it's okay. Less is better. I'm finding in middle grade even more so. So, and I think now, especially with everyone wanting shorter word count,

00:29:53              MEG GAERTNER

in middle

00:29:59              LISA SCHMID

less is definitely better. And so I hate to break it to you middle grade authors who are my friends and listeners. It's time to break out the whole delete button. So what, and this big question. that we need to ask now that we have gotten to know you and gotten to know about stars and our star additions dolly fish flux what are you looking to round out your list right now and in both in both ya and middle grade yeah and so we are open to all genres in both middle grade and ya the types of books that i always come back to and i kind of mentioned some of these earlier but would be

00:30:32              MEG GAERTNER

and so we are open to all genres in both middle grade and ya the types of books that i always come back to and i kind of mentioned some of these earlier but would be Those stories that address difficult or weighty topics in age -appropriate, compassionate, and thoughtful ways, again, applies to both middle grade and YA. Historical fiction that highlights underrepresented or excluded experiences. Horror, especially of the uncanny or unsettling kind, or where the horror element is a stand -in for something more internal to the protagonist. I just eat those sorts of stories up. psychological thrillers genre benders i think in in flux in particular we tend to like weirder stories or or stories that aren't really classifiable or that make you know filling out the metadata and choosing bisac codes really challenging we tend to like those as well but yeah we are we are open to all genres and i'm i you know i try to make my wish list that I post online as thorough as possible, but I'm always finding manuscripts that surprise me and just astonish me and get me super excited that I would never have guessed what I would be interested in. So I'm always happy to be surprised.

00:31:53              LISA SCHMID

How many books do you publish a year with each one?

00:31:58              MEG GAERTNER

Yeah, I'd say across both. We publish between eight to 12 titles a year. So that would be split into fall and spring seasons. So maybe, you know, three to four to five per Flux and Jellyfish Press.

00:32:08              LISA SCHMID

know, three

00:32:12              MEG GAERTNER

Oh, that's good. I mean,

00:32:15              LISA SCHMID

mean, that allows you to really focus on those books. And that's something we talk about all the time. It's just, you know, sometimes it feels like publishers pick up so many books that they can't give everyone the time and attention they may deserve. And so it just seems like you've you've stayed true to the core of like spreading your love out equally with all your authors, which I love.

00:32:41              MEG GAERTNER

Yeah, that's definitely a goal for us. And I think, you know, with Jolly Fish Press, we do publish kind of work for hire crossover fiction for the trade and school library market. So we do have those titles that we're doing as well. Early readers up through kind of high, low, middle grade fiction. But yeah, so. So those would be, I did not include those in the eight to 12 titles, but trade titles.

00:33:04              BETH MCMULLEN

but trade

00:33:06              MEG GAERTNER

Yeah, we keep it pretty small.

00:33:08              BETH MCMULLEN

This has been so much fun. I am so, so happy that you were able to come and join us today. Thank you so much for being here and sharing all of your vast experience with us and our listeners. I know people are going to be very happy to listen to this episode and be jotting down wildly all of your notes about query letters. I guarantee that's going to happen. So thank you so much for joining us today.

00:33:30              MEG GAERTNER

That was absolutely my pleasure. Thank you so much for inviting me on.

00:33:34              BETH MCMULLEN

And listeners, remember, you can find out more about Meg by visiting our podcast notes and the blog at writerswithwrinkles .net. And Lisa and I are back March 17th with an Ask Beth and Lisa episode. Please see the podcast notes for how to send us a question for that, or you can use any of our social channels to send us a question too. So until then, happy reading, writing, and listening.