Writing Origin Stories! Do you have one?

🎙️ Episode Summary:
In this special "Ask Beth & Lisa" episode of Writers With Wrinkles, Beth McMullen and Lisa Schmid explore the emotional challenges of the current creative climate and share their personal writing origin stories to inspire struggling writers. With humor, heart, and a dash of wine, they offer a candid look at what first ignited their passion to write and how to reconnect with that spark during tough times.

🔑 Key Discussion Points:

• Mental health in writing: Beth and Lisa acknowledge the current collective sense of despair among creatives and share strategies for managing anxiety and rediscovering joy in the craft.
• Funny bookstore tales: Lisa recounts stealthily rearranging books at Barnes & Noble and longing for the perfect shelf placement. Beth shares her “book flipping” technique and the invisible sensor that alerts staff to authors in the wild.
• Wine and writing therapy: Lisa hilariously shares her obsession with Chateau Ste. Michelle Light Chardonnay and the great unboxing event of her case delivery.
• Unboxing video spoofing: The duo dives into the unspoken pressure behind book unboxings and how performative moments can feel inauthentic.
• Their origin stories:
  • Lisa’s journey began after closing down a beloved but overwhelming nonprofit. Her pivot to writing children’s books was rooted in wanting to continue making a difference for kids.
  • Beth’s motivation came from pure spite—a competitive spark after seeing a peer publish a book drove her to finish her first manuscript.
• Message to writers: Return to the emotional core that first pushed you to write. That original spark can reignite your current writing practice.

🔚 Conclusion:
In a time when many writers feel stalled or discouraged, Beth and Lisa remind us that reconnecting with your personal "why" can reignite purpose and momentum. Join the community in their private Facebook group, The Waiting Room: Therapy for Writers, for support and solidarity.

🔗 Mentioned Links:

• Join the Facebook group: The Waiting Room: Therapy for Writers
• Visit: writerswithwrinkles.net

Transcript

BETH MCMULLEN

Hi friends, I'm Beth McMullen. And I'm Lisa Schmid. And we're the co -hosts of Writers with Frinkles. This is season four, episode eight, and today is technically an Ask Beth and Lisa episode, because once again, we've had to rearrange our schedule due to unforeseen events, and we will be back next time with another guest. But for now, you get us, and we're doing something a little bit different today. We are trying to inject some positivity. into what feels like a very fraught world right now for so, so many reasons that we're not going to get into. But I think it's possible. I think we can do it. Are you with me, Lisa?

LISA SCHMID

I'm with you. And it's one of those things where it is, we're in a really dark space right now. And I just, I want to acknowledge that, you know, we're all like there, we're all feeling this, you know, collective trauma at the same time. And one of the things that, you know, I've been talking to different writers and I keep hearing different, you know, things coming at me of, you know, I texted somebody, I'm like, how's the writing going? And she's like, I just feel hopeless. You know, another person I was talking to, she's like, I just feel diminished as a human. And another one said, you know, what's the point? Well, that was actually me.

LISA SCHMID

I was going to say. That sounds familiar. I think I've heard that before. It's me. So because you do, you feel like, are we even going to be around? And so it's just one of those things where I feel like we're all feeling really dark. And I just, you know, I think it's good to just acknowledge that. And then we'll like dive into that a little bit and find different things to like pull us away from that.

BETH MCMULLEN

Yes, I think that is very important to do upfront. I too know lots of people who are feeling this way. And one of the things that feels so overwhelming is that you can't get away from it. It is this low hum of anxiety in the background all the time. And I swear to God, I... For the first, I don't know, 35 years of my life, like I love sports to play them and to, you know, do crazy stuff. But I've never been like a fan where I'll watch professional sports. And the last handful of years, I've become like a fan of rugby and a fan of water, but like all sorts of random things, because in the moment that I'm there. I'm distracted. I'm not having to think through all the other things that are happening. So like you're trying to play tricks on your brain to kind of bring down that anxiety because it is so uncomfortable to be with all the time. But this is where we're at. And hopefully we're going to talk a little bit about origin stories today because that's always fun to dig into when it comes to writers and how they got their start and what made them write their first book. When I say them, I mean me and Lisa, because we only have those two data points that we can talk to right now. So, yeah. And you have a funny story. I think we should start with a funny story.

LISA SCHMID

I have a couple of funny stories, actually. So, which one do I pick? Which one goes first? We'll go tell the Barnes & Noble story first. I like the Barnes & Noble one. Do that one first. So, my son bought me a gift card from Barnes & Noble for... Christmas. And so the other day I thought, oh, you know what? I'm going to go in and buy Go Scouts Honor. It's our next guest new middle grade novel that just came out. So I'm like, you know, I trot over to Barnes and Noble. And it's so funny because I always wonder, I feel like, you know, anytime like an author walks through the door, I feel like there's like some type of sensor that goes off that alerts like all the customer service people that work there. Because you go in and of course, we're going to face out our books. And I've been in Barnes & Noble where I faced it out and within minutes, it's like back in its allotted spot.

BETH MCMULLEN

That is cracking me up because I have, I literally go in and I walk around and I feel like I'm in stealth mode, right? Because I'm just walking around quietly flipping books of mine, of other people that I know. And then I'm trying to get out of there really fast so they don't like figure out that that's what I'm doing. But I think you're right. I think they know the minute you walk through the door and they start following you.

LISA SCHMID

And I do the same thing. So, and what I do is I casually pick it up and kind of flip through it and I'll look at it. And then I casually put it like facing out someplace and I do it like where a book's already faced out and then I'm walking that one. So it looks like it's supposed to be there. But I did it for probably three or four books when I was there. Anyway, so my book, Learned Souls, is sadly on the top, top shelf where no child on this planet can reach it. You know, I even have to kind of step on like the shelving unit to reach up and grab it. So I, you know, I bring it down. I'm casually flipping through it. And then I'm like looking around. I'm like, okay, here's like an eye level spot. And I put it there. And then I continue to go look at other books. So there's a mom that's there. She's looking for her kid. She had a son that's probably 10 years old. It's my target market, right? So, and I'm watching her and I'm kind of standing off to the side and she's looking out, you know, she's looking at books, looking at books, looking at books. And she's like right in front of my book. And it's like right there. It's like, just look at it. Just pick it up. And I'm just standing there kind of watching her like a weirdo. Like, look it up. Like, read the back cover. Just think. She just like looked at it and kept going. And not cool. Not cool, lady. Poor choices. Just dropped. And I'm like, oh my God, that's the saddest thing. The saddest thing. So it will once again, as soon as I leave the store, be like moved up to the shelf. Why do we have shelves in the kids section that are literally five feet above the kids'

BETH MCMULLEN

Why do we have shelves in the kids section that are literally five feet above the kids' heads?

LISA SCHMID

Nobody will ever buy any of those books up there.

BETH MCMULLEN

You know, it's on the very bottom. Sometimes the books on the very bottom do okay because kids like to sit on the floor, but the ones on the top, they can't reach them. And so they're not ever going to,

LISA SCHMID

very bottom.

BETH MCMULLEN

yeah, it's like a structural flaw. They have the same shelving for adults that they have for kids, which doesn't make any sense.

LISA SCHMID

Yeah, but it was just so, I mean, to follow them, because again, we all do it. And you know, they must have a schematic of what's supposed to be facing out that they like go around with and check. Because I don't know if they get special, like if, you know, publishers pay extra for that facing out, which I'm assuming they do. Clearly, my publisher did not pay for that. Maybe.

LISA SCHMID

They paid extra. Way up high.

BETH MCMULLEN

Being on the top in this situation is not good. It's not something we strive for. We want to be solidly middle of the road and the shelf. The rest of the time, right? That's where we dwell.

LISA SCHMID

we dwell. That's our happy place. So funny. So anyway, so then, you know, as life goes on and I've recently and I talked to you, you like followed my saga all yesterday. So I have been like. drinking wine at night. Oh my God.

LISA SCHMID

Honestly, I didn't, I barely drank for like a year. And then I don't know why, you know, I don't know why I stopped drinking. I was just like, Oh, you know, whatever. So then, you know, now of course I'm guzzling it like it's water and I'm walking, you know, across the Sahara Desert. Side high times. It was at the grocery store. I found this. bottle of wine. And this is a pro tip for all our listeners. And at the time, you're welcome. I found this wine. It's Chateau St. Michelle Light Chardonnay, and it's 80 calories a glass.

BETH MCMULLEN

I swear to God, I have not heard you so excited over something in probably five years. I think your last book deal, you were less excited. Oh my God.

LISA SCHMID

I initially found it. I'm like, It's a screw top. Like that is hard. I don't even have to mess with like it. So I get home and I crack it open and I pour myself a glass and I'm like, delicious. Delicious.

LISA SCHMID

Immediately it was like, I need to go back to the store and buy every bottle they have. So I got the little, you know, carrier and I went in, I put it in my thing and my cart and I'm going through the store and it's not there. It's nowhere to be found. And so I'm like, oh my God, they're out. So I've got like a total wine and more in my little town. So I immediately jumped into my car and drove there and they're like, yeah, we don't carry it. And so I just thought, well, this is not good news for me. So I went home and I jumped to Chateau St. Michelle and I ordered a case of the wine. A case. I have never ordered a case. Did you feel after you hit the order button,

BETH MCMULLEN

Did you feel after you hit the order button, did you feel just all like light and airy and happy and joyful that it was inbound?

LISA SCHMID

it was inbound? I did, but at the same time, I thought my husband's going to think I have a jerky.

LISA SCHMID

I think I do at this point. So, you know, I watched the tracking and I was out for a walk. And all of a sudden, I'm like, a tracking thing came in. It says, you have to be there today between two and six to sign for the book. So, of course, I came home and, like, just abandoned myself. And this was yesterday, waiting for my wiring in front of the door like a golden retriever. Afraid to go to the bathroom for four hours. And, of course, he doesn't show up until 6 .13 because I had looked with my phone. Because you would think it was like the best unboxing video of all time. Like I peeled open the box and my husband and son were watching me and I pulled it out and I hugged it. And I'm like, oh my God. See, this is where we're at. This is where we're at. It's so funny because they're like Holly's girlfriend. made some creme brulee for us and she left like the little blowtorch for us to use always like blowtorching the creme brulee so i'm like yeah hold off this is this bottle is my dessert i am good god so funny so anyway there's nothing wrong with all of us aspiring to drink like hemingway i mean he was really famous and he was drunk all the time right and surly and mean we don't have to be surly and mean but

BETH MCMULLEN

good god

LISA SCHMID

funny so anyway there's nothing

BETH MCMULLEN

there's nothing wrong with all of us aspiring to drink like hemingway i mean he was really famous and he was drunk all the time right and surly and mean we don't have to be surly and mean but Seriously, it is a sign of the times. We got to do what gets us through.

LISA SCHMID

got to do what gets us through. I posted in the waiting room like a month ago. Like it's, you know, redditing while drinking good or bad.

BETH MCMULLEN

You know, I think it depends. I think it depends on the moment. I don't think we can say one way or another. And everybody out there, if you haven't joined the waiting room, that's our private Facebook group. for writers. We actually renamed it Therapy for Writers because that's really what it is. So pop over there. I'll put the link in the notes. Pop over there if you want to join in our, you know, conversations, which are sometimes very helpful and useful and practical and sometimes just existential despair. So, you know, it could go either way. I like this story. I wanted Lisa to make an unboxing video, like those unboxing videos that you see for people when they get their books. which I always feel like I don't love them because they feel very rehearsed to me, and they're supposed to feel spontaneous, and yet they're exactly the opposite. So I just wanted Lisa to spoof them. But instead, she just ripped open that box and got right busy drinking the wine.

LISA SCHMID

I actually thought about doing it. And then I thought, well, what if somebody gets offended by that? You know how I lament about everything on the planet? Yeah, I know. And so I, at first I was like, oh my God, this is funny. And I texted my, our, our friend Melissa Roska and I was like, should I do it? She's like, do it, do it. And then, but the more I thought about it, I was like, this might upset somebody that, you know, takes these skills very seriously.

BETH MCMULLEN

seriously. Definitely. Because they do take them seriously. I say all the time that I don't like those videos, but people don't care. My opinion is irrelevant.

LISA SCHMID

is irrelevant. I think the origin of the unboxing video, and I cannot remember who the gal was, but she had posted like her unboxing video and she was sobbing, like crying. And it made it on like the Today Show or something. And her became like an instant bestseller. And I think after that, people are like, we're doing that. And so it just, but it's never going to have that same effect as that person where it was so authentic and you can see she was just emotionally like overcome. Like I've watched it and I'm like, oh my God, I'm fine.

BETH MCMULLEN

But that's the way it is with all of these things that end up going viral. The very first instance of them is authentic, is real, is heartfelt, does have some sort of emotion underneath it, propping it up. And then when people try to recreate it, it loses that very thing that made it so attractive that made you respond to it. So I always, I mean, it's the same idea of trying to write to a trend, right? You're trying to do something for reasons other than why you really should be doing it. You know, for that woman's unboxing, it was really just like this cumulative moment she was having. Right. And for the rest of the people who do it. I'm always like, how long has that box been sitting on your table? Did you like re -tape it? Because you've already looked inside, you know what the book is like. So that is just my very cynical POV right there. But never, that's the way that I feel.

LISA SCHMID

It's kind of like, remember that time that I thought my books were coming? I have my husband there and my son there. And it was literally an unboxing video. I'm like, oh, my God, it's here. It's here. And so I opened it. I sliced it open. And my dog, Barley, is sitting there on the couch watching. And he's sniffing the box and wagging his tail. And I open the box, and it's his bag of dog food. See, I mean, I would have loved to have seen that video.

BETH MCMULLEN

have loved to have seen that video. That would have been. So funny, right? Because that is just exactly what would happen to you. I'm not surprised. You're like, wow, this book doesn't really look like what I thought it was going to look like.

LISA SCHMID

Yes, I'm so excited. Barley was just sitting there sipping the box. He was trying to tell you something and you were not picking it up.

BETH MCMULLEN

trying to tell you something and you were not picking it up. Oh, my gosh. That is funny. Well, those are two. funny stories right there. So already we're accomplishing our mission of injecting positivity into the atmosphere and the universe. So tell me,

BETH MCMULLEN

me, so you brought, you, you thought of this idea of the origin story. So what it was, the spark, the moment that you decided I'm going to write this book. And it was funny because when you brought it up, I actually had to like, think about how my first book came to be and when I did finally unravel it all the way back I was surprised so yes one of the reasons this all of this kind of this idea came about for a couple different reasons one I really want people

LISA SCHMID

of the reasons this all of this kind of this idea came about for a couple different reasons one I really want people Because people are really struggling to write right now. I feel like if people can go to what their origin story is, like when they decided I want to become a writer, like what was that moment for them that was just like, this is what I want to do, or I want to write this story. Because we're all trying to find a way to, I don't know, like grasp onto some level of joy or some purpose or whatever. And I'm hoping that by... like thinking about what your origin story is, like you and me, you can tap into that when you sit down and you try to write in this really dark time. And so the reason why it all came about was because on threads, somebody had posted like, what's your, you know, your brush with fame story. And think about something I haven't thought about in years. I, years and years ago, I founded a nonprofit called School Activities for Everyone. And it served the Sacramento community for about 10 or 11 years. And how long have I ever told you about this? I don't think I have. See, I haven't talked about it.

BETH MCMULLEN

I know you've talked about the nonprofit, but I'm not sure if you've told me this story.

LISA SCHMID

Well, and I've never, I think most people that know me don't know anything about it. Like my son didn't even know anything about it until I showed him and he was like, oh my God. So what we did was we underwrote school activities for like out -of -pocket expenses for extracurricular activities. So kids would apply, high school kids would apply. And if they didn't have the money to play like football or be a cheerleader or, I don't know, play soccer or be on drill team, whatever, my nonprofit would underwrite these expenses. And so it was such a great program. And we also had Cinderella's Closet. which was we gave dresses to prom girls and I actually had like a physical like location. It was just like this beautiful boutique and girls could come in, couldn't afford a prom dress and took out a prom dress and accessories and all these things were donated. And then we got so many dresses that I opened a boutique. It was like a resale boutique that called Tags and all the profits from that boutique. went to Benefit Safe. And so then it just kept going. So then it just, you know, kind of exploded. And then I started like the spirit of giving scholarship program for kids. They can apply. And then we give them like a little scholarship. I think it was like $1 ,000 to $5 ,000. And then after I'd started all that, I was just about to launch TextBox, which would have paid for boys to like their out -of -pocket expenses to launch tapes. So anyway, this all went on for a long time. But the problem with it was, is that I was doing all the fundraising. And so, and I was doing all the, you know, writing grants and I had assistants and I had a board, but it was very much a letterhead board. But I had somebody that was, you know, running Cinderella's Closet and somebody who was managing the, the, the tags, the little tag store. But it was a lot. And during that time, I had a full -time job. It was super stressful. So I was working this job and managing this nonprofit that was just exploding. And so it was like constantly like working, working, working, working to like get this thing going. And each time I was getting tons of class and I always just thought like, this is the moment that's going to get me, you know, some more money and whatever. And so one time, and this is where the story wraps around. Somebody had, like I said, somebody on threads had posted what to brush with fame. And I was like, oh my God, I totally forgot about this. I was featured in People Magazine twice for this nonprofit.

LISA SCHMID

And I remember very clearly thinking, this is what's going to get me the money. But each time, and it was. I ended up, this is also really funny. So the way I got in there, there was like a contest. It was like, you know, do you know somebody that's like doing something good in the community? And so I saw that and the prize is like $10 ,000. I'm like, oh my God, I'm applying for that. That's $10 ,000. That's like 500 kids I can serve. And so I went and applied. And I remember, like, getting a call and saying, you know, you won. Like, there was, like, four winners. And I was one of them. And she's like, the board, like, unanimously voted you in. And I remember thinking, of course they did.

LISA SCHMID

Of course, why would I say? This is an awesome program. Anyway, I won this thing. And I got the $10 ,000. And, like, the four of us were, like, featured in People magazine. And each one, like, had, like. This is the funny part. Each person like had like a little who nominated them. Like the other three women had other people nominate them. And I nominated myself.

LISA SCHMID

Well, that's kind of embarrassing. Give me my $10 ,000. That is self -confidence right there.

BETH MCMULLEN

That is self -confidence right there. That is a heaping dose of self -confidence.

LISA SCHMID

So then the next year they were running this contest thing again. And they used me. I was like, it's like a whole page ad of just my picture and like, you know, talking about my program. And I remember at the time, which is so sad, I remember thinking, God, that's a horrible picture of me. I don't look very good. My God, I pulled it out and like, oh,

BETH MCMULLEN

don't look

LISA SCHMID

I looked really good. Like what the hell with you back then?

BETH MCMULLEN

you back then? I want to see this. I want to see this thing. You need to show it to me. Oh my God, there it is. Hold on. Oh my God. We need to put this on the note. We need to put this attachment on the note so all of y 'all can see this picture. Holy cow.

LISA SCHMID

cow. It was crazy. So anyways, so wrapping this whole story around, it was such a wild time. I remember I won this award. And you know that I'm such a crier. I do. I do know that. But there was one that was like, I swear, there was probably like 750 people there. And it was all like business leaders. And, you know, all the bigwigs in Sacramento. And it was at, like, the Hyatt or something crazy.

SPEAKER_02

do. I do know

LISA SCHMID

And so they, you know, they're waiting to announce who the winner of this award is. And I'm thinking, I'm getting it. Because, like, I do so much. You know, I was just like, I need to get this award because I need the money. And so they announced the award. And I went up. I started crying. Like, I was like, I love the award, but I would like your money more.

LISA SCHMID

I'm just like, I didn't value on this award. Oh my God. So anyway, just like a little bit of behind the scenes, people magazine stuff. That's kind of fun. And again, I totally forgot about this to take the picture. They flew up a whole team from LA that met me, did my hair, did my makeup. And then there was a photographer. And then so that happened. And then one part of the prize package was not just $10 ,000, but they threw a party for me at this place called the Sterling Hotel, which is this beautiful boutique hotel in Sacramento for me and 100 of my best friends. Oh,

BETH MCMULLEN

my God. They should have just given you that money,

LISA SCHMID

money, too. I got that money, too. That's like we asked him for that. We asked him for that, too. And so then on top of that, they. Flew in this gal. She was a singer, a pop singer from Australia called Delta Goodwin. And she performed. She gave us a private concert. Oh, my goodness. They threw up another team to do my hair and makeup and sent a limo for me.

BETH MCMULLEN

How crazy is that? That's crazy because, I mean, you've exceeded the... the actual award amount by so much at that point. But it gave them, it gives them something good to write about, right? It's a good, a good story.

LISA SCHMID

So all this time, you know, and each time, like when this came out, I'm like, this is my golden ticket. I probably read about you in People Magazine because I was a religious reader of People Magazine for a long time.

BETH MCMULLEN

read about you in People Magazine because I was a religious reader of People Magazine for a long time.

SPEAKER_02

for a

LISA SCHMID

And I was just, yeah, I remember it was during the Brad and Angelina thing. And I remember giving my thank you speech and I probably had a couple glasses of wine. I was like, hey, P .S., you know, I'm team Aniston, you know, just like, please give me more money. right like can you just all get yeah that's funny that is so god i mean it's just it was such a crazy time like even the white house there was somebody at the white house that did a dress drive for me like it was like it was laughable this is all off the hook and like nobody i literally have not thought about this in years like and when i was showing ollie he was like you never even talked about this i'm like you know what i think it was such a long time ago and i am still so sad about it because i ended up It was so stressful that I ended up having to close it down. Like I couldn't, you know, it was too much. It grew too big, too fast. And I just, you know, I got to the point where it's like, if I didn't have enough money, I was like donating my own. Yeah. It just, I ended up in the emergency room from the stress. And so I was like, I have to shut this down. And so I remember like sitting in my office as I was closing down the, you know, the nonprofit and being so sad. And I'm like, what am I going to do now? Like, I don't like, what am I going to do? And I remember just sitting there going, well, maybe I'll write a children's book because then I can like still like make a difference. And so I called my friend and she's like, what are you going to do? And I'm like, I'm going to write a children's book. And she was like, of course you are. And I'm like, I am. And I'm like, this is how I'll channel. like all this stuff. Did you, had you ever thought up until that moment sitting at your desk,

BETH MCMULLEN

you, had you ever thought up until that moment sitting at your desk, you know, like essentially closing the book on one part of your life and having this kind of big wide open space in front of you, had you ever thought that you wanted to write a book or did that come out of left field? So it just kind of showed up.

LISA SCHMID

It just kind of showed up. Like, I mean, I toyed with it, like thought about it, like, you know, just in passing, but I was never a writer. I was never a writer at a school. I was never like, it's never, I never like sit down and wrote something. I think I wrote a poem in the sixth grade. It just wasn't my thing. You know what I mean? I don't. Yeah,

BETH MCMULLEN

no, it's really interesting how something like a traumatic event, like having to, you know, wrap up this thing that you felt very vested in and was very valuable can trigger this entirely different path. Right. And it's, it's interesting how your brain is like, well, that's not going to work. So we're going to do this.

LISA SCHMID

You know, just the ironic thing also is I remember thinking, you know, because it had been so stressful for me and yeah, I'm just like, I can't, I can't keep going to the hospital from this. Cause it was just absolutely wreaking havoc on my body. And I remember thinking, well, writing a story, that's fun. Like how stressful. Little did you know, I was like, you know, as I'm going through acquisitions and I was sitting on the floor crying and so completely stressed out and riddled with anxiety. I'm like, this isn't as fun as I thought it would be. Oh, you're like, I jumped out of the frying pan right into the fire.

BETH MCMULLEN

it would be. Oh, you're like, I jumped out of the frying pan right into the fire. I know. I was saying, I was on this book coaching business accountability call this morning and I said that it's the writing and I feel like so many writers. Feel this way. The writing itself is great. Love it. Can't imagine a life where that didn't happen. But the business side, the marketing side, all the other stuff that writers are now fully expected to carry on their own is hard. And that's where the stress comes from. It doesn't come from the writing. The writing is great. It comes from the surrounding responsibilities that come along with it. And that stuff is freaking terrible. Yeah. It's crazy, but that's... I like this story. I like this story because I feel like it fits you. I feel like it fits your sort of like ambitious, oh hell,

BETH MCMULLEN

hell, who cares if I don't know how to do this? I'm going to do it. And I think that is very much you. So it doesn't surprise me that this idea popped into your head that I'm going to write a book as you were essentially, you know, trying to crawl out of this very... stressful period of your life. So I think that, and you did it and you've done it and you continue to do it. So yeah, it was,

LISA SCHMID

it was, yeah, it was crazy, but I look back on it now with fond memories and, you know, yeah, but it just, it's weird how like you can kind of data dump it, but it was just like, I just. I'd forgotten until that girl mentioned on threads. And then I just posted. I was like, I was in people magazine.

BETH MCMULLEN

Well, and I feel like when you are, whenever I've been out on book tour for a book and people say, where did you get your idea? It's a different question than when did you decide that you were going to write a book,

LISA SCHMID

Well, and I

BETH MCMULLEN

did you decide that you were going to write a book, right? The idea for a specific book feels like a very different question. And a lot of times I swear that I have answered that question so many times about so many books that. I'm to the point where I am starting to wonder if I've actually made up some of those answers. I mean, if you have studied any psychology and you know that memory is inherently very faulty and we very rarely can account accurately something that happened in the past, I feel like I've told so many different stories about so many different books and how I got the idea that I'm like, actually, I don't even know where the idea came from anymore. But I do know. The very first time I committed myself to actually finishing a book, and this will surprise nobody who knows me, is that it came out of total spite. Ooh. Yes. Beth McMullin. Can you not be surprised by that? I'm not surprised by that. Unlike you, I had been writing parts of books for my entire life, like bits and parts and chapters, and I could never get past the middle. I would start with 10. fabulous chapters and then the thing would just die on the vine I mean I used to joke about the graveyard under my bed because I would put these dead half -formed manuscripts in this box under my bed and there were many many many of them and it was just like a tragedy I didn't even like to look at it and then I got to a point where I had a couple of ideas that I thought were pretty good But again, I couldn't get, I just couldn't get them done. Couldn't get a draft, could not get a draft done. And this friend of mine,

BETH MCMULLEN

of mine, and I use the term loosely friend. We weren't really friends. We knew each other. And she was a perfectly fine person. Like there was nothing wrong with her. We didn't have any grief or anything. And she wrote and published a book and she published it with a fairly big publisher. And I remember having this moment where I was like, wait a minute, there is no way that she is better at this than I am. There's no way. There's just, I refuse to accept that. I do not want to live in a world where that is what's happening. So I got her book and I read it. It was perfectly fine. It was a romance. It was fun. It was quirky, but yada, yada. And I literally, I would say I put down her book and I turned to my, you know, not ever going to be done manuscript. And I finished that book. And it was, I was driven completely out of like spite. There's no way that I am going to let you write this book, any book where I can't do this because I've been wanting to do this my entire life. And I had never been able to pull it off. And that I finished that draft. That was a terrible book that I wrote. Terrible, terrible. Never saw the light of day. I like to think of it as my practice round. I sent it out to 50 plus agents and they were all like, are you kidding me? There's just no way. So, I mean, it's the next book. The next book was actually my first published book. So I got better at doing what I was doing, but I was really, that was the moment. And I, you know, I'm 80 % sure looking back that my memory is accurate about that, but I remembered very distinctly that. That's what it took. And you're thinking in this whole world of things that would drive somebody to write a book, that's my thing, like competition.

LISA SCHMID

See, but that, you're a super competitive person. And that totally matches your personality, which is good. It's like whatever your origin story is will motivate you right now. Everyone needs to tap into it. I think that is very true. What you're saying is very true.

BETH MCMULLEN

very true. What you're saying is very true. You have to tap into the emotions that drove you to this thing to begin with. And I'm definitely at an inflection point with my writing where I've been struggling a little bit to figure out which direction I go in. And it is definitely useful to think about that driving competitive, well, there's no way that you tell me that I can't do this.

LISA SCHMID

Like the outside world,

BETH MCMULLEN

the outside world, like the pressure and the outside world of publishing doesn't get to tell me that I can't do this.

LISA SCHMID

Right. That's a really good motivator right there in itself. And I think for me, it was more, you know, mine was different, but similar in a way, I guess. I don't know. A lot of stress. But, you know, I had, you know, and I've talked about this before, I had a crazy childhood. And so it was very traumatic. And that's what motivated me to start this, this nonprofit for kids. Because I'm like, I, you know, I want to help any kids so that they don't have to, like, have what I want. And so that's kind of like when I decided to write books for children or children's books, it's because like maybe in my small way, I can still affect change with, you know, the hands of kids that this gets into. So that's, that was my motivation. And it just, but whatever your motivation is out there, listeners, like you need to tap into that right now, because right now, more than ever, we are in a really. crazy place and, you know, arts and literature is what brings people out. Like this is what saves people more than ever. And so I think I just want people to tap into that.

BETH MCMULLEN

That's our public service announcement for today. Remember the thing that pushed you to get it done the first time and see if you can still tap into that, grab some of that energy and bring it to right now because we definitely need it. Yeah. Wow. You know what? This thing wrapped around so much better than I thought it would be because when we started this episode, we were like, we're not even supposed to be recording this today. What are we going to talk about? The origin stories is fun, but wow, we brought it, we brought it home. I think really well.

LISA SCHMID

Do we're just, you know, we just all need to like stick together. And if you're not in the waiting room, like go out and join it. There's a, we're building a community of people in there that are. You know, it is. It's therapy for writers. And we're also posting tidbits that we learn, like Beth just posted about how tariffs are going to affect the publishing industry. You know, if I see something, I post something. And then people are sharing different ideas and thoughts and introducing. And we've got writers from that are picture book all the way to adult fiction. We also have a moment, you know, time in there when we'll. give our writers an opportunity to ask questions of our guests. So it's a great community and I encourage everyone to go out there and, and enjoying the waiting room on Facebook.

BETH MCMULLEN

Me too. It's fun. And it's, it's makes social media less overwhelming. I get completely overwhelmed with social media and I'm just, it's too much. So this is like a nice little segment where I kind of know the people and they kind of know me and it's just a good. It's definitely a good resource and it's cheaper than actual therapy. It's free. All you have to do is have a Facebook account, which I know for some people kind of makes you want to throw up, but it's, you know, this kind of one little thing and it is good. Okay. So that is it for today's episode. We have several guests on tap for the next few weeks. We're not a hundred percent sure of the dates that these will drop. So we will be letting you know. The first one is Carrie Blake and Chip Kramer. whose new book, Ghost Scouts Honor, came out this week, I believe. Try to pick that up. It sounds really good. It's a middle grade book, Ghost Story. She's also an agent, so we will be peppering her with agent -related questions. Those are the ones that you guys get very excited about, so don't miss that one. We also have Brian Selznick coming up. And Brian Selznick, you've heard of. He wrote The Invention of Hugo Cabret, which was the basis for Martin Scorsese's movie, Hugo. Wonderstruck is also him. That was made into a movie by Todd Haynes. He has lots of books, but he is out on tour now for a new book, a young adult romance called Run Away With Me. So we're excited to talk to him about that book in particular. You'll want to join us for that one. And that is all. Listeners, please remember to visit writerswithwrinkles .net and find out how to support the show by subscribing, following, and recommending. And until we see you again, happy reading, writing, and listening. Bye, Lisa. Bye, guys.