To Edit or Not to Edit? (An Ask B&L Episode)

Episode Summary:
In this engaging Ask B&L episode, Beth McMullen and Lisa Schmid tackle two of the most commonly asked questions from aspiring authors: what is voice in writing and how do you navigate the editorial process? With personal anecdotes, practical advice, and a whole lot of writerly camaraderie, Beth and Lisa break down complex concepts with clarity and humor.

Key Discussion Points:

• Catching Up: Beth shares travel stories from Copenhagen and Amsterdam, including a must-visit bakery (Anderson Bakery), while Lisa talks about her current writing phase and genre pivot.
• What Is Voice?: Beth uses a brilliant analogy inspired by the Van Gogh Museum to define voice as an evolution of style that emerges through experimentation and imitation, becoming uniquely yours over time. Lisa highlights how voice is infused with the author’s personality and reflects their authentic self.
• Understanding the Editorial Process:
  • Advice on handling editorial letters—read, reflect, highlight, and revisit.
  • The importance of setting ego aside and seeing editors as collaborators.
  • When and how to push back while preserving your voice.
  • Personal experiences with accepting or negotiating changes during revisions.
  • Encouragement to not feel overwhelmed and to treat edits as opportunities for growth.

Conclusion:
Beth and Lisa offer real, grounded insight that demystifies the writing and editing journey for emerging authors. Whether you’re figuring out your voice or working through your first editorial letter, this episode is a warm, insightful companion that reminds you—you’re not alone.

Mentioned Links:

• Visit: writerswithwrinkles.net
• Bakery Mention: Andersen Bakery (Copenhagen)
• Upcoming Guest on June 9: Editor Joel Brigham on fast drafting

Transcript

BETH MCMULLEN

Hi friends, I'm Beth McMullen. And I'm Lisa Schmidt. And we're the co -hosts of Writers with Wrinkles. This is season four, episode 12. Today we have an Ask Beth and Lisa episode, but before we get to the really good questions, we're going to catch up a little because I feel like we haven't done one of these episodes in a super, super long time. Is that true? Or am I just like losing my mind?

LISA SCHMID

No, we haven't. You were gone for a little bit. You had a little vacation.

BETH MCMULLEN

I had a really awesome vacation. I went to Copenhagen. I went to Amsterdam. And I was like, cool, I could live in either of those places and be quite happy. They're just really fun cities, both of them.

LISA SCHMID

You left me behind and I was bitter.

BETH MCMULLEN

I was a bitter. I did. I did. A couple of times you sent me these sad little texts. When are you coming home? I don't have anyone to rant to.

LISA SCHMID

I did.

LISA SCHMID

anyone to rant to. It was tragic. I would start to message you and I'm like, oh, she's in another country having fun and I'm just back here spinning. So I was like counting down like the moments, like when you told me I'll be home on this day, I, the next morning I was like, okay, she's had like a full day to acclimate. Like how early is too early to call her? So I remember like, are you up yet? Are you up yet?

BETH MCMULLEN

yet? I totally felt like I kind of slapped that whole jet lag thing right in the face. The first day I was like, I'm good. I'm not like. I don't have any jet lag. I feel fine. And then like two days later, I felt like I got run over by a bus. Yeah, it creeps up on you. Delayed onset. Is there such a thing as delayed onset jet lag? Because that's what I had.

LISA SCHMID

you. Delayed

LISA SCHMID

I think so. I think you're running on adrenaline when you get back and then all of a sudden you crash.

BETH MCMULLEN

Yeah, and your body just does not know what it's doing. It's like, I'm hungry for breakfast. Yeah, but it's like eight o 'clock at night. You can't have breakfast till tomorrow. So it just gets really confused. Like you're working against it. Humans were not meant to go across that many time zones so quickly.

LISA SCHMID

I'm impressed that you like take directions from your body. If I said I wanted breakfast, I would be like, I am having breakfast. Cinnamon rolls,

BETH MCMULLEN

rolls, bring them on. Like I think I just, we were eating the most. All right. So in Copenhagen, we found these, this one bakery. And if you're ever there, it's called Anderson Bakery. And it is like a transcendent experience. It was so good. Everything they had was so unbelievably good that you just sort of felt like you had dropped into like a pastry fairy tale if there's such a thing.

LISA SCHMID

Well, it was funny because you're in Copenhagen and you're sending me a picture of a pastry and coffee. And I'm like, yeah, I don't care. I know. It's like not what I want to see.

BETH MCMULLEN

So many pictures of pastries and cups of coffee because mostly I wanted to remember them. But also I was like, I am so moved by these.

LISA SCHMID

Yeah, I just I remember just looking at it thinking she's lost her mind. If that's what she thinks I want to see.

BETH MCMULLEN

Well, what was left of my mind anyway? Oh, my God. So that's it. Now it's back to reality. Trying to know where I was in this stupid manuscript that I'm working on. But, you know, I'll get there. I'll figure it out.

LISA SCHMID

You'll figure out. At least, you know what? At least you have like a full manuscript that you have that you can play with and dive in and like, oh, I can do something here. I started a new book and I like posted it. Oh, I'm starting a new book. And that was like a month ago. And I remember talking to my agent, Leslie, and she was like, you know, Lisa, because I think everyone knows right now I'm a pantser and I write chapter by chapter and I'm very slow. I mean, it just takes me a long time. And she's like, why don't you try fast drafting? And I thought to myself, why don't I just try skydiving at the same time? Like, that's not happening.

BETH MCMULLEN

I know we need to actually do an episode on fast drafting because I don't totally get it. Like, I don't I think I understand it kind of on a theoretical level, but I don't really understand how you do it. And maybe it would be informative, informative for us to figure it out. Well, I mean, I don't feel I feel like, yes, you're you're having a slow start. But I also have discovered in this manuscript that I thought that was like complete. And I was just going back to revise it. is that there are many chapters in there where I literally wrote chapter 17, right later, chapter 22, right later. They're just not in there. And I don't, usually when I do that, I'll leave myself notes. Like this is where this needs to happen or that needs to happen. And this is just like blank space. My gosh, that's funny. Is it funny or is it tragic? I feel like it's more tragic at this point. It's a tragic comedy is what it is.

LISA SCHMID

That's sort of us in a nutshell. You're better than me because I started this story and I'm writing. It says I've gone back to the last one was the time travel and someday that will go out and hopefully get purchased. I'm not like I'm in the, you know, way in place. I'm in the doom and gloom phase, you know, where I'm like, I'm never like I'm quitting writing. And so. You know, that'll go out. But this time I'm like, I'm going to go back to writing spooky. But I'm like, you know, what's hot? Everyone wants like scary spooky. And I always write like funny spooky. But I'm just thinking that's, you know, the market. Everyone wants spooky spooky. So that's what I'm going to do. But that's not like what falls to me. But I'm trying to do it. And which kind of, you know, I don't know. Anyway, so I've been reading other books and trying to get their pacing and like, when did, what do they do? You know, dah, dah, dah, dah. And so I am not kidding you when I say I've written two pages in the last month and the first chapter. And the other day I was like, you know what? Two pages is a good start for a chapter, chapter two.

BETH MCMULLEN

I think that's sensible. Why tie yourself up in knots? Maybe that chapter was actually done. And the smart thing was to move on to the next chapter. Besides, you can always get to the end and maybe you'll find that you left yourself a note right later. It's fine. It'll all be fine.

LISA SCHMID

fine.

BETH MCMULLEN

You know what? And it was more of just like,

LISA SCHMID

it was more of just like, I just want to write chapter two. So, but I'm like, everything I wanted to get in there is in there. And I'm like, I need a couple spooky lines to like say like, this is something spooky. Set the tone. And so I got that in there.

BETH MCMULLEN

something spooky.

BETH MCMULLEN

that in there. I think it's good to do different things. Like I'm working on this thriller. I've never written a thriller before. You're trying to be scary. You've never been like actually terrifying before. I think this is good. I mean, it'll either end our writing careers because we can't take it or we'll, you know, break onto some new plane and have a totally different experience.

LISA SCHMID

Yeah, we'll see. I'm going to, I am going to try. I just, I also think I'm just kind of burnt out right now and, you know, the world's crazy. So I'm just like, you know what? I'm just going to like take it slow. And yeah, even if my book sells, it's not going to happen in, you know, six months. It's not, you know, it's not going to happen overnight. So it's not like anybody's like. saying, Hey, what do you got? You know, what do you, what's next? What's happening? Yeah. So I'm kind of in that space where I just, I'll just write when I write and, you know, otherwise. I think that is completely,

BETH MCMULLEN

I think that is completely, that is completely acceptable as a, as a schedule. Just do it when you feel like doing it. Don't beat yourself up when your chapters are two pages long.

LISA SCHMID

Don't beat

BETH MCMULLEN

Everybody wants shorter books. I mean, honestly, some days if I can read two pages, I feel like I've accomplished a lot. Yeah. Okay. So we got a couple of good questions for this week, didn't we?

LISA SCHMID

We did. Really good questions. Yeah. So we got, we have two questions that came in and I'm going to ask Beth's favorite first. I think it was your favorite. I don't know. This is the one I'm asking first. Maybe it's my favorite. Somebody asked, what is voice? That is the big question, I think, when you're very first starting to write. And I would hear that. I would go to conferences and people would talk about, you know, you'd go and you'd sit in on a session and, you know, there'd be an editor, an agent, and they were just talking about voice. And I was sitting in my chair, just in my mind, screaming, what is voice? Somebody tell me, what is voice? Like, I don't, I didn't understand what they meant by voice. And I kept, like, all the times. I've gone out into different conferences and they've talked about voice. I've never heard somebody define it.

BETH MCMULLEN

Somebody tell

LISA SCHMID

it. And then it was so interesting because somebody had emailed this question and then you wrote a sub stack on it. And it was the first time I've ever gone, oh my God, she nailed it. Like this, for all those people who don't quite understand what voice is and do not feel bad. I've never really even understood what voice is until somebody's like, oh, I love your voice. And I'm like, well, I don't know what you mean, but okay.

BETH MCMULLEN

don't know what you mean, but okay.

LISA SCHMID

But why don't you kind of give your like take on it?

BETH MCMULLEN

So voice is such a weird thing because everybody has their own definition. And if, you know, you ask five different people, they're going to give you five different answers. I was thinking about it, honestly, because when I was in Amsterdam, I went to the Van Gogh Museum, which is amazing and if you're ever in that city definitely put that on your list of things to do but the way they have the museum set up is you start you evolve with van gogh as an artist and so you start when he you know up and decided one day he's going to be an artist which is almost what happened he it wasn't as if he had a skill or a talent that he knew about he just decided he was going to be an artist and he started by imitating artists that he was intrigued by. So, you know, various names that were prominent in that era, he started trying to recreate what they had done in his art. And you can see it because they have these examples. And oftentimes in the museum, they'll have something that Van Gogh did, and then something that he was imitating side by side. So you can really see the influence of the one on the other. And as you progress through the museum, you see him move away from imitating to really coming into his own unique, very unique style. And that evolved. It wasn't like he woke up one day and had the... ability to paint Starry Night or Sunflowers or any of that stuff. He got there through this progression of not copying because these were not direct copies. They were influenced by what he was looking at and he was using their techniques or trying to imitate their techniques. And it was only through that imitation that he found his own style. And I thought to myself, while I'm standing in this museum, this is exactly the way that I would describe voice to somebody who didn't quite understand it. So you're going to start by trying on different styles. So say you are, I mean, I can see Robert B. Parker, who wrote the Spencer novels way back in the 80s and 70s, which I loved. I can sometimes see his style show up in my writing because I was so influenced by him early on. Tons of writers like that, where I read a lot of their stuff and I felt like I kind of allowed myself to use that as a crutch to figure out how I wanted to sound. And how I sound is uniquely me, but is standing on the foundation of all of these writers that influenced me early on in the process and still do to this day. So I think the voice is what becomes. you after you've gone through this period of trial and error. And I don't think you ever stop evolving. I think your voice changes. For instance, my voice in this thriller that I'm writing, it's definitely me, but it's an angle that I haven't come at it with before. It sounds a little different, but I think it's that process of iterating on your own craft so that you get to the point where people will say, Oh, I totally hear you in this. Or that's a Lisa Schmidt book. And I know it because you sound like you, because you have done the imitation and the work and the building of your own style by, you know, digesting a lot of other stuff and then mixing that all up. And what comes out is you rather than one of these other things that you've been imitating. if that makes sense. That's what I was thinking about when I was moving through this museum and the way they had it laid out. It just was so, it was so easy to see the evolution, his imitation, his study, his, you know, investing himself in this whole world. And then eventually out comes this remarkable and unique style that almost everybody can identify as Van Gogh right off the bat. Yeah.

LISA SCHMID

And that's, and that is the perfect definition of voice. And it's just your personality gets infused into the story. And that is, so whenever I read one of your books, it's like, I'm hanging out with you. Like I can feel your personality in every word. I'm like, this is a Beth Macbillan book, like you were just saying. And it's funny, when I first started writing, I loved growing up. I loved Roald Dahl. Just loved him. But his descriptions of like, you know, like the antagonist or whatever were always over the top. You know, everything was like big over the top, you know, crazy descriptions. And when I first started writing Ollie Oxley, I remember kind of using that same kind of over the top, like, you know, just ridiculous. And I got called out at a workshop. They're like, this is ridiculous. So, but then, but I didn't really realize I was doing it. I was like, oh my God, this is, you know, this is what I'm doing. And it might've been appropriate or funny back in a Roald Dahl book, you know, 20, 30, 40 years ago or whatever, but it certainly wasn't like right for the moment. And so, I mean, it wasn't super bad, but I think I just, I had gotten a little too like, I don't know, I can't describe it, but that's, you know, and then that's when I realized. And so then you start kind of peeling things back when somebody, you know, calls you out like this is, this is arcing or it doesn't sound like you, or this is, you know, whatever. And then you eventually find your way.

BETH MCMULLEN

And I don't think it is something that is necessarily conscious that you're doing it. I think you, you have ingested enough books or in Van Gogh's situation art that it starts to just impact what's coming out naturally. So you're not forcing it. You're not, Like you were at that stage saying, well, I like this Raul Dahl stuff. And so I'm going to try to do that. And you may not have even been conscious that you were doing that, but that's how it comes out. So you take that one step further and now you still have that, but now you've kind of made it your own. So it's more appropriate to what you're working on and getting your point across. Right. And there was something that Van Gogh said, and I think this was later in his career when he had really moved into, not trying to paint what was in front of him, but trying to make sure he captured the feelings of what was in front of him, what he was trying to say. So would change colors and textures, obviously, and representations and whatnot. But I thought that was really, I thought that was really a good writing tip, almost, that in your words, you're trying to create a feeling, a sense. So your words may not specifically say the sky was dark, but you're saying something about the clouds that creates this ominous feeling, which is what you're going for. So yeah, I felt like there were a lot of parallels you could make between his experience as an artist and writing. So I think everybody should go there if they get a chance.

LISA SCHMID

Yeah. But again, that's like, that was, I think the best definition of voice that I've ever heard because I don't know, message me if you've had the same go. You do, you go to these workshops and in these breakout sessions and you're trying to learn something. It was like, you know, the same thing where you would go in and editors or agents would be like, I just, I want beautiful writing. And it's like, oh my God. Like, what does that even mean? You want, you know, what's beautiful writing?

BETH MCMULLEN

writing? Well, and what you wish they would say is, I'm an editor. I want beautiful writing. And this is what beautiful writing means to me. Right. Because there are editors out there who would consider what I write not beautiful at all. And some of them would love it. So, you know, it's like a personal taste. And I think that's why. writers get so screwed up about it because it is so individual. There really is no one stock answer. It's going to change. And that makes it hard. Like we really want to have something solid because we're like, we're like a hot mess enough anyway. So you put some, some ambiguity in there and the whole thing just explodes. Right.

LISA SCHMID

that makes

LISA SCHMID

So I was, I was notorious in my own mind for like walking out of sessions. I was just like, okay, this isn't.

BETH MCMULLEN

You're like, I'm mentally checking out of this. You're just not here. The last thing you want to do is come out of a workshop being like more confused than you went in.

LISA SCHMID

Yeah. There's, you know, times there, you know, you'd see writers, we'd all be whispering like, what does she mean? Beautiful writing. What does she mean? You know? And like, I look at certain books, like I'll read something that just won a bunch of awards and I'm like, yeah, that's, you know, this is beautiful writing, but it didn't do anything for me. And then I'll read a book that's funny and quirky and. made me laugh and cry. And I'm like, that to me is beautiful writing. Like that is, it made me feel like again, you know, full emotions. Yeah.

BETH MCMULLEN

like again, you know, full emotions. Yeah. So it is very subjective. And I think trying to, trying to put it in a box and be like, this is what it has to mean. It's just a fool's errand. It's never going to be that way. It really is up to, up to the reader. And that's, that's the great part about reading is you bring your own, you bring yourself to the book. And so that's going to change the experience. Like me reading something is going to change the experience of reading that book as opposed to you where we bring different things to the book. So that's the beauty of it. And that is beautiful.

LISA SCHMID

that is

BETH MCMULLEN

Wow. See how I brought that around? I brought that around.

LISA SCHMID

brought that around? I brought that around. I saw it. I saw it.

BETH MCMULLEN

saw it.

LISA SCHMID

Well, hopefully that answers some questions on voice because I know that's something. And even like I said, even today, I'm like, oh, what is voice? So hopefully that answers the question. So the next question that we had come in from a listener was asking about the editorial process. And she's going through her first book deal and she's just now sitting down and going through her edits. And she doesn't know like what she can push back on, what, you know, what. What's okay? What's not okay? Can you say no to the editor? Can you push back? Can you just ignore it? I've done all of the above. And so I think we can kind of address that in a way that's helpful.

BETH MCMULLEN

I love that question. This question gets me so excited because I have so many thoughts on it. We'll try not to go on forever and ever. But I think the first thing to think about is that The editor, first of all, the first thing you have to do is put your ego aside, right? You cannot be in this profession and not be willing to take constructive criticism. If you're not willing to take constructive criticism, your work will never get better. It'll probably never get published. So just check the ego at the door. You can pick it up on your way out, but this is no place for you to be precious about your writing. You really have to open your mind and be willing. to take the feedback that doesn't mean you have to use all the feedback but you do have to hear it all you have to hear it all even if it's stuff that you're like i don't think i'm going to do that and the reason that you need to do that is because editors by and large are very smart people with tremendous insights into your work that you can never arrive at on your own you are too close You are too involved. It is too much in your head. You really need their perspective to take it to the next level. And I have gone through this multiple times where I felt like a book was good and then my editor brought it to the next level. And there's no way I would have been able to chart that course without her. I mean, these are people who this is what they do, right? In the same way that, you know. I was actually going to try to make some sort of medical analogy because I've been watching the pit and I feel like I have the emergency room in my head, but I'm not going to even go there. I'm going to skip right over that. But you really do need to listen to what they're saying. And when you're going through the notes, this is the strategy that I use. I read everything, the whole thing. And sometimes it's many pages. Often it's many pages. I read it all. I put it aside. I come back a couple of days later after it's had time to sit. I read it again with a highlighter and I make highlights on the stuff that I'm like, absolutely, yes, agree, agree, agree, need to do all of this stuff. Put it aside again, come back, make sure I still feel the same. And then I start going into the edits. Now there's going to be stuff on those pages that I have not highlighted that I'm not going to do, that I'm just feeling like that doesn't fit in yet. Sometimes after I've gone through a revision and I go back to the, editorial suggestions i'm like oh yeah of course i need to do these other things as well but i've taken it all in so i'm thinking about all of it when i'm making my ultimate decisions about what i want to include or not include right so i feel like you can't automatically dismiss any of it at the beginning no i agree i agree with you 100 i know that

LISA SCHMID

i agree i agree with you 100 i know that It's funny, with Ollie Oxley, I loved, loved, loved my editor. I had taken out all the point of views of Teddy the ghost. And she came back and she's like, you know, they'd already bought the book. And she's like, have you ever thought about like having Teddy in there? It's like, you know, chapters from his point of view. And I'm like, now that you say that, I have. this whole other manuscript with chapters of Teddy in there. And so I just like sent her the new manuscript and she loved it. But then she was just really good. She was, it was my, it was my first book. So I was so open and so hungry to learn and so grateful. And she was like the perfect person. Like, and the thing is, I think don't be afraid to ask questions. is a big thing because she would have something and I'm like, I don't understand. Like, why, why did you come to that conclusion? Why are you asking me to do this? What's confusing for you? Or is it important? Like, sometimes I would just write back and be like, is this important? Because I, I want to keep it. Or if I felt like something was stripping out my voice, I would push back and say no. So to, you know, like you said, I just would go through it. And, you know, piece by piece and weigh it out with her and talk to her about it, you know, after I'd gone through with it. So it just, you know, and also you got to hope that you have a really good editor that is willing to have that dialogue with you. But just, I think both the, I've worked with two or three editors and an editor on this other story I'm working on that everyone they'll each say, this is your story. They'll always, you know, and from what I've always, you know, everyone I've ever talked to is editors always say, this is your story. So I think if somebody, you just have to make sure that somebody is not looking to change it in a way that it's taking or changing your voice. Since we've already discussed voice, we can throw that around right now.

BETH MCMULLEN

No, I think that's true. I think that's true. I think there, there are, I've definitely heard stories about people who feel like the editor has become intrusive. I feel like those are, are. more the exception than the rule. And by and large, the edits are going to be valuable. I think that like when I edit somebody's work, I tend to err on the side of giving them a lot. I give them a lot with the knowledge that some of it is going to be rejected, that they're just not going to want to do it, which is completely fine. But I would rather give all my thoughts and all of the... concerns I have or ways that I think they could make the work stronger all at once. So you've got it all and you can start making your own decisions based on that feedback. I think what you said is it's important to have clarity too. If you don't understand the suggestion, then ask for some clarification because maybe it's important. Maybe it's not. I also think that you really have to If you're really going to throw down over something that you feel is super important and you're getting a lot of pushback from the publisher, like be sure you want to die on that hill. You know, you're going to have a lot of times in publishing a book where you're going to have to compromise stuff. So just make sure that that's the thing that you're that I've had that I've had that experience where there was something that a scene that I absolutely could not cut because I felt like it just pulled the spine right out of the book. And my publisher was not. did not want the scene in and I eventually got my way and and it it was integral to the story and I'm glad that I fought for it but fighting for that meant I pulled back on some of the other stuff that I would have been like well hey can we do this can we do that instead I was like okay I'm cool with everything else you guys are going to do I just we need to keep this part in yeah there's it's almost like a little silent negotiations you have in your head because there was same thing in the last book I was there was something they wanted me to do and I'm like oh

LISA SCHMID

there's it's almost like a little silent negotiations you have in your head because there was same thing in the last book I was there was something they wanted me to do and I'm like oh You know, I didn't want to do it, but I had to, there's reasons why. And I, there was like a scene where I included some Taylor Swift stuff and they're like, you can keep it in there, but if you get sued, you know, dah, dah, dah. I'm like, of course, but there was like another part to it. They're like, we think you should do that. And I was like, okay, if I change this here, then I'm just going to like, keep this over here. You know what I mean? You're kind of negotiating your way through things. It's like, okay, I'm going to fight for this one, but I'm not going to fight for that one.

BETH MCMULLEN

It's like,

LISA SCHMID

And it's weighing out what's important to you. So don't be afraid to push back because it's not like they're going to fire you. They've already bought the book. I mean, you're not going to get in trouble. And you're not being difficult.

BETH MCMULLEN

not going to get in trouble. And you're not being difficult. You never want to be difficult without a purpose. Right. So be sure that you have your ducks in a row before you start advocating for something in particular. I think there's also sometimes that feeling, especially with a person who it's their first.

BETH MCMULLEN

that you feel like you have to do every single thing that the editor suggests. There's no expectation that you're going to do everything. Like I said, you're going to get a lot of feedback and not all of it is going to fit your mental map of the story. So I think that don't be afraid to just leave some of it by the wayside and you don't even have to explain it. If they ask, of course, you can explain it, but they probably won't. So if there are things you just don't address because you don't feel like they're necessary, that's completely fine. Yeah. Yeah.

LISA SCHMID

So hopefully that answers that question of when you get those first edits and, you know, especially the editorial letter, that's very overwhelming. And I love your suggestion of highlighting things that you're willing to work on. or whatever. And then, then you're going to get the edits that they make in the documents where they're like, maybe I don't like this word or, you know, just like little stuff like that. So those are all things you can, you can push back on or you can ask questions or you can let relate in your brain for a while. And you know, which, which hell are you willing to die on? So to speak.

BETH MCMULLEN

Yeah. It's, I mean, it's a lot that first. editorial letters a lot because you're just not used to it. And if it's, you know, they can be six or eight pages long. So there's a lot of material in there and you could just, I mean, my very, my very first one, I was in a hotel room when I got it and I, so I couldn't print it out. I just had it on my laptop. And I remember I had my laptop on the desk in the hotel room and I was just kind of like walking back and forth. Like I'd look at a few paragraphs and then I'd walk away from it. Cause I was, it was like too much for me to handle. So give yourself a little space to feel a little intimidated and overwhelmed, but you will totally work through it. Just like you wrote this book, you'll be fine tearing it apart and rewriting parts of it too. So anyway, I like that question. I think it's an interesting thing because you don't have a lot of people that you can ask about that situation.

LISA SCHMID

I mean, I didn't know anybody else. Well, I think I knew you. The time, I probably was able to ask you questions about it. And so it is one of those things that you will, and even if it's not like if you get picked up or if you have a book deal, you might be working with an editor. You know, right now, one of my, my new critique partner is an editor and she has been editing. It's so funny because she edited my, the second in. chapter book series that I'm working on. And she came back and she keeps pushing on this one thing. And I'm like, I'm not changing it. It's my voice. It's the voice. And she's like, it's grammatically not correct. And I'm like, I don't care.

BETH MCMULLEN

But that, I mean, that is true though. Sometimes it's the, it's the quirky little. things, the nuances that make it sound like you. And if you take those out, it starts to sound like it was written by AI. If you've ever read anything by AI, you realize that it doesn't sound like anybody. It sounds like it's just,

LISA SCHMID

it sound

BETH MCMULLEN

just, yeah, it sounds like it's been produced by a robot because it has, it doesn't have any texture. It doesn't have any of the, oh yeah, that's Elisa Schmidt book. They would never, it doesn't have that complexity. And those little things are the very things that make it unique. Okay, I think that's it. I think that wraps up our time for our Ask Beth and Lisa episode. Thanks for joining us. We missed you. We're happy to be back. Come and visit us on our socials and you can find out all the info, everything that we're up to on our website, writerswithwrinkles .net. And Lisa and I are back on June 9th with editor Joel Brigham, who will be talking about drafting with us. Oh, so maybe we can ask him about fast drafting. I think that's one of the questions I have down.

LISA SCHMID

that's one of the questions I have down. And then I also have for all the panthers out there, what his advice is for us on drafting and fast drafting.

BETH MCMULLEN

There's no hope for us. I think that's what he's going to say. Good luck. Have fun. I know. Anyway, so Joel will be here. That will be a craft intense episode. And I love those. And I think you guys love those too. So that will be good. That is June 9th. That will drop. And until then, happy reading, writing, and listening. Bye, Lisa. Bye, Beth. Bye, guys.