Ask B&L: Book Coaching? What even is that?

Episode Summary:
In this Ask B&L episode, Lisa interviews Beth about her work as a book coach and what aspiring authors need to know before querying. Beth shares how she supports writers through revisions, builds their confidence, and helps them reach submission-ready status.

Guest Bio:
Beth McMullen is the author of multiple middle grade novels and a seasoned book coach who works primarily with middle grade writers. Drawing from her own experience in traditional publishing, Beth helps writers finish manuscripts, tackle revisions, and prepare their work for submission with a focus on structure, accountability, and emotional support.

Key Discussion Points:

• What is a book coach? Beth explains how a coach differs from an editor or critique group and why coaching provides actionable, structured feedback.
• Common issues writers face: From missing stakes to flat pacing or starting in the wrong place, Beth identifies recurring manuscript problems and how they’re fixable.
• The first step in coaching: A conversation to define the writer’s goals—whether it’s finishing a book or preparing to query.
• The emotional side of writing: Writers often need support and affirmation; coaching includes “30% therapy.”
• Breakthrough moments: Writers go from feeling overwhelmed to finding clarity and confidence with a clear roadmap.
• Advice for stuck writers: Write a logline. If you can’t summarize your story in one sentence, you may not be clear on it yourself.
• Target audience: Beth currently works mostly with middle grade fiction writers, avoiding genres like hardcore sci-fi or nonfiction.

Conclusion:
Book coaching bridges the gap between idea and execution, offering writers not only professional guidance but also much-needed support in a solitary craft. Beth’s kind, structured, and honest approach empowers writers to believe in their work and themselves. Aspiring authors—especially those ready to query—can benefit immensely from this episode’s insights.

Mentioned Links:

• Newsletter & Cheat Sheets: www.writerswithwrinkles.net
• Beth’s Book Coaching Services: bethmcmullenbooks.com
• Upcoming Guest: Barb Hopkins on self-publishing (airing August 18)
• Instagram: @bethmcmullenbooks

Transcript

Ask B&L S4E17 Book Coaching

BETH MCMULLEN

Hi, friends. I'm Beth McMullen. And I'm Lisa Schmidt. And we're the co -hosts of Writers with Wrinkles. This is season four, episode 17. And today, we have an Ask Beth and Lisa episode. But really, we're actually going to interview me about book coaching, which I know is sort of weird. But I think it's going to be fun, right?

LISA SCHMID

No, I think it's going to be good. This was actually my idea because so many people wonder, like, what exactly does a book coach do? And you're so good at what you do. I know how much you've helped me. And not just with my book stuff, but, you know, psychologically with my writing angst.

BETH MCMULLEN

I think that book coaching is like 30 % therapy.

LISA SCHMID

I think anytime, like, I think I've said this a million times, like with my agent, it's, I just did something the other day where I'm just like, oh my God, she's just, you know, she thinks I'm neurotic and crazy. And I think I told you about it, which I am. And so you can take the, you can serve in that role as therapist and talking people down from their neurotic tendencies. I think that we as writers tend to have more of that than less.

BETH MCMULLEN

think that we as writers tend to have more of that than less. That's my personal experience and from all the people that I know in this business. Quick reminder before we jump into the fun stuff, please visit our website and sign up for our newsletter. It only comes out once a month, so you're not getting spammed constantly from us, but it gets you access to the cheat sheets that we make from the different episodes. And those are great to just have on hand, especially when you're in those places in your writing where you're feeling a little frustrated and maybe need some additional motivation. So please, please go and sign up for that.

LISA SCHMID

When I get the email, I'm like, oh my God, Writers with Wrinkles is messaging. These crazy girls are at it again. You get so excited.

BETH MCMULLEN

You get so excited. Little do you know, it's also from you. This is behind the scenes. Beth writes it. I do. I do write it. But it's really not. It's mostly just like. This is what's happened. This is what's coming. This is what you should get excited for. And we are very excited for our next guest, by the way, Barb Hopkins, who's going to be on soon to talk to us about self -publishing because Lisa and I are clueless. And we know a lot of you out there have big questions about this topic. So we're psyched for that one.

LISA SCHMID

I have several friends currently that are looking into self -publishing and it is. There's a lot of different businesses out there, a lot of different ways you can self -publish. I saw this, an ad or something, it was about hybrid publishing. And so I'm like, okay, what's hybrid publishing? What's, you know, there's all these different levels. And then there's some companies that will act almost like a little publisher instead of doing print on demand, they print out a certain run of stock. And so there is, there's. a great deal of variations that you can look into, which I find confusing. And I've been trying to like go through this with my friend and I've been reaching out to different friends who I know are self -published and Barbara's one of them. And she actually spoke to my friend yesterday and was super helpful. So I think that this is going to be a really good conversation because her books are amazing. That's the Chronicles of a Cursed Midlife. That's a series that she has out with her co -author, Kelly Garcia, and they're wonderful books and they look fabulous. And, you know, she's, she's the girl to go to for this.

BETH MCMULLEN

Yeah. So we're excited for that one. I think that'll be a really good conversation. It'll, we'll get ourselves educated on this whole thing so that we can be more helpful when people have questions. So we're looking forward to that. Do you want to talk about your not news news? I do have not news news.

LISA SCHMID

news. Well, it's still in the works. So we can't curse it or jinx it because the minute we start talking about it, it will all fall apart. So hopefully my good news all comes together in the weeks to come and then I'll eventually have something to announce. But I'm very, very excited. We'll see what happens. Nothing's done until it's done. Nothing's done.

BETH MCMULLEN

done until it's done. Nothing's done. But it will be very fun and exciting for everybody when it does get done. That's all that's being said. We're moving on. I have a Czech edition. This is always fun of Secret of the Storm, which was my third middle grade series. I just got copies of that yesterday. It's always fun to see those. If you look on my Instagram, you can see what it looks like. It looks a lot like the North American edition. But of course, you know, I do not speak Czech. So it's fun to look at the title and think, I wonder what that means. I should actually take it and put it into a translator and see what it translates to directly. I'm curious.

LISA SCHMID

I think I have a friend that could translate that for you.

BETH MCMULLEN

Really? Yes. I'm always curious about foreign editions and how the story. is changed or the nuance of things are changed in a foreign language edition. I have a German friend who has read German editions of various titles of mine and has said they are pretty close to the original. But it's always like, it's curious, right? Yeah. And you'll never know. I will never know. Unless I hear from people who read the Czech edition and have opinions, which sometimes happens, right? And then you're thinking, okay, I know what that means in English. Does it translate the same way into this language so that it means the same or is the nuance lost? I mean, it's just a pretty interesting area to think about when you're thinking about foreign editions.

LISA SCHMID

Have my friends read it and see what she says. I'm going to ask her to. I'm not going to demand.

BETH MCMULLEN

going to ask her to. I'm not going to demand.

BETH MCMULLEN

It's a kid's book, so it's not a huge, it's not a heavy lift. Well,

LISA SCHMID

a kid's book,

LISA SCHMID

she's a writer. She's a kid writer. She's a listener. So shout out to her,

BETH MCMULLEN

writer. She's a listener. So shout out to her, whoever she is. The mystery woman. We won't name names on the show.

LISA SCHMID

I was just going to name her name. Well, okay, then go ahead. We're under the bus, so people are like, hey man, did you need that? She's like,

BETH MCMULLEN

man, did you need that? She's like, now I feel like I have to read this stupid book because we talked about it on the show. We don't want to put her in that position.

LISA SCHMID

about it on

LISA SCHMID

Hey, so this is kind of a funny little story. I just thought of it when we were talking about that. So the other, like last week, I'm like, God, I really want to go to a workshop. Like I want to go someplace and hang out with other writers for a few days and do that whole, you know, submersion, hanging out with people and going in, taking craft classes. I couldn't find anything. Like I was texting everybody like, Hey man, do you know where our workshop is? You sound like you're searching for drugs.

BETH MCMULLEN

sound like you're searching for drugs.

LISA SCHMID

I have, I must have like messaged probably five or six people and I searched everywhere. There's nothing going on. And it's such a bummer because I used to go to the LAFCBWI conference every year and had so much fun. You'd go to the workshops, but for me, it was really going, hanging out with people I get to see once a year. And I had the same group that I'd be texting from the bar, like, meet me, where are you? I'm in the bar, meet me downstairs, leave wherever you're at. But nothing, they don't do it anymore. And it's such a weird thing that they would choose to do the New York conference, which is horrible weather in the winter instead of LA during the summer. in person. I mean, I don't know who came up with that, but it's wonky and they should swap it or at least start that conference again. But I digress. So anyways, so we had gone to Better Books. Gosh, was that like five or six years ago?

BETH MCMULLEN

leave wherever you're at.

LISA SCHMID

I think it was a long time.

BETH MCMULLEN

was a long time.

LISA SCHMID

And I'm just like, oh my God, you know, I'll go to Better Books. It's in Marin. So, you know, it's fun. I can go hang out with people. And so I looked on it and I'm like, it's coming up in October. I am all over that. Let's see, you know, who's on the faculty. And it turns out that Carrie Blankenship Kramer wrote Go Scouts Honor is one of the faculty members. And I'm like, oh, my God, I could hang out with Carrie. This will be so much fun. And Carrie was on the show. Carrie was a great guest. Yeah, she's super fun. And so I'm like, I'm signing up. And then I look at it and it's not in Marin County. It's in El Dorado Hills, which is five minutes from me.

BETH MCMULLEN

one of the

LISA SCHMID

Can you crash it? Just like, oh my God, I don't want to go to El Dorado Hills for a conference. You had visions of like LA or Hawaii or something nice. And you're like, El Dorado Hills, what? Yeah, I'm not going to El Dorado Hills. Like I'm there all the time. Like, why would I go to, I was just there this weekend for a book launch. That is so funny, but you can go have lunch with Carrie or something.

BETH MCMULLEN

is so funny, but you can go have lunch with Carrie or something.

LISA SCHMID

I am. I'm going to have dinner with Carrie and her agent, who is, I think, also on the faculty. And then we have our brewery here in Folsom. And I think we're going to have like the whole group of people from the workshop is going to come to a meet up there. That'll be super fun. For drinks and pizza. So yeah, that'll be super fun. Maybe I crash that. Maybe we crash that and do some interviews or something.

BETH MCMULLEN

and do some interviews or something. That would be fun. Like some recordings that we could then put on the show. Okay, now we're making everybody listen to our brainstorming. That's not fair. Okay, that's not good. Okay, let's move on. But we're going to do that mental note for later.

LISA SCHMID

Like some

LISA SCHMID

Okay, that's

BETH MCMULLEN

All right. Let's move on. Now you are totally in control because you have to ask the questions. Oh, please. Things are getting wild here on the set of Writers with Wrinkles. Everybody hold on to their hats.

LISA SCHMID

All right. So now you need to put your book coaching hat on. I'm putting on my book coaching hat.

BETH MCMULLEN

my book coaching hat. Really just my reading glasses. That's what I'm putting on.

LISA SCHMID

just my reading

LISA SCHMID

I feel like Alex Trebek. Here's your first question. Are you going to play the music? I wish I had it right now. When you do this, I know I'll see if I can find it and stick it in there. That would be funny. All right. So Beth McMullen, this is your first question. What does a book coach actually do and how is it different from an editor or a critique group?

BETH MCMULLEN

Lisa, that's such a good question. I'm so happy you asked that. Oh my goodness. Honestly, it is actually a really good question because most people, when you say you're a book coach, they're like, what? What does that even mean? A book coach is really just a professional guide who helps writers develop a story idea, revise a manuscript, finish a manuscript. They provide structure and support in a nutshell. So it's different from an editor who tends to step in after a draft is done or a critique group. that will offer lots of advice, but is sometimes inconsistent. And it might not be advice that's easy for you to use in a practical sense. If you've worked with critique groups, you kind of know what I'm talking about. The advice can be from all over the place and putting it together for yourself in a way that's useful can be a challenge. So the kinds of packages I offer as a coach support the writer at all of the stages. So whether you need a developmental edit on a full draft, or you're tackling a round of revisions that's making you crazy, or you just need guidance to finish a draft, you get a personalized plan, regular feedback, and accountability, which is my personal big thing. So it just lets you move forward with a little bit of confidence and a sense of purpose. And I developed all of the coaching packages, which you can find at my website, which I'll put in the podcast notes, based on the things that cause me personal pain.

BETH MCMULLEN

Finishing, that's always hard for me. Getting feedback on a full draft and figuring out how to use it in a revision is always hard for me. Staying on track with revisions is always hard for me. So I thought about those sorts of things when I was designing the packages that I offer. So that's really kind of what a book coach does for a writer.

LISA SCHMID

So like, for example, what type of writers are coming to you that are they writers that are well into the process? Are they beginning writers? Are they, you know, are you getting them across the board? Do you have a requirement? Like, what is it that you're, that you're tapping into?

BETH MCMULLEN

I'm getting them from all over, but what's been happening most lately? are writers who come to me with a full draft that they've poured their heart and soul into, as we all have experienced. And they are asking me to sign off on them being ready to query. They want confirmation. So they say, this draft is done. I'm ready to query it. What do you think? Right? And by virtue of actually coming to me and asking that question, they kind of recognize that maybe they're not quite there. especially if it is somebody's first book, they might not really understand where it needs to be in order to start querying. And I say the same thing to all of them. Book publishing is incredibly competitive right now. It is very tight, especially the middle grade market. And you only get one chance with your dream agent or whoever it is on your list that you want to impress. So the book has to be the absolute best that you can make it. So what I'm doing in that situation is helping these writers figure out what they're missing. You know, how can this book be better and tighter and more complete? And then we build a revision strategy around that. What are we trying to achieve? But it's doable and it's not terrifying. I know sometimes revisions at that point when you have a whole manuscript and you're like, wait, I'm done. Those rounds of revisions can feel terrifying. I make it not terrifying by making you have small steps that you're working through. So small steps are doable. You can see the progress. And the goal at the end is being submission ready. When we're done, yes, then go off and submit to your heart's content. You're ready to do it. Almost always the problems that people have in these finished manuscripts are fixable. They're like, you're missing stakes. They don't feel... They feel flat. They don't feel like they're enough. Your pacing is off. You have issues with that. Sometimes the story just starts in totally the wrong place or the characters are kind of blending together and you need some differentiation there. Things that are super important but are absolutely fixable. And sometimes the process takes a little longer than a writer would like, but I like to say that you have worked so hard on this story. Don't shoot yourself in the foot. at the last minute by being impatient. You got to hang in there and do it right. Again, you only get one shot. So don't sell yourself short.

LISA SCHMID

So when you start writing with somebody, what's the actual first step you take? Do you just kind of do, do you do the editorial letter?

BETH MCMULLEN

No, the first step is just a conversation. I want to understand what your goals are for the project and that some of that. is deciding on your publishing path like we just talked about all the different options in self -publishing some people want to do that some people are like traditional publishing or bust that's the only thing that i want some people are like i just want to see if i can finish a whole book like can i actually do that and that's what we set as our destination it is driven by the writer it is driven by what they want to achieve for this individual project and once we both are on the same page In terms of defining that destination, then we can make moves to figure out what are their pain points in getting there. Like, what are the problems we're trying to solve in that manuscript to get it to the destination that they've defined? And sometimes the writer thinks it's one thing, but it turns out it's something else entirely. Maybe they're thinking, my pacing is not right, but really they started their story in the wrong place. So we really get into sort of... What are the underlying problems and how are we going to fix them? But book coaching is really, at least my book coaching, is really about structure. So no matter what the problem is, the writer will have a very detailed roadmap to know what's coming at every turn. And we developed that together. Like, how do you work best? Do you need me to give you small goals and you achieve those and then I give you another goal? Or do you need to know every single thing that we're going to do all? in this manuscript all at once. It really depends on the person because we are all really different in how we approach our work. And I like to respect that in the process because working against that isn't good for anybody. So there are no surprises in the calendar. You're never going to feel like I said one thing and you ended up having to do another. Again, one of my personal struggles in writing is accountability. And so I'm all about that in coaching. And if you show up and you do the work, I promise you'll get there. I mean, you will. And I will never mislead you in terms of what I think you can do. I believe in honesty and feedback, but I also believe that it should be kindly delivered. If someone is telling you you suck, you're not going to hear anything else that they are saying. You're just going to hear, oh, they don't like it. They don't like it. So I try to be honest because I want you to be better. And I want the end product to be what you honestly believe. But I also don't want you to walk away not hearing what I'm saying because I delivered it in such a way that it hurt your feelings. So I'm not going to do that. I also feel like I end up reminding people that we're talking about their work, not themselves personally. I think it's hard in this business to distinguish sometimes between the two, but it's important as you move into the querying stage because you will have to get used to the occasional kick in the teeth. It's part of the business. So figuring out how to take feedback in a positive way, reminding yourself that it's not. You as a person, it's this body of work that we're talking about, even if it does feel very personal. I think those are important lessons to get you ready to launch your publishing career.

LISA SCHMID

It reminds me of a story when I very first started writing Ollie Oxley, and I knew nothing, obviously. We've talked about this a lot. And I had hired an editor to look at my work and help me out. So she was like an editor, but I don't know. I can't remember a book coach, whatever. It was so long ago. But I had a conversation with her on the phone and I remember her saying, this is a hot mess.

BETH MCMULLEN

Which again, not super helpful.

BETH MCMULLEN

So I'll never forget that.

LISA SCHMID

that. This is a hot mess. And so, yeah, anyway, that's just funny. I'm glad. So glad you're a little bit kinder than that because that works so well.

BETH MCMULLEN

so well.

LISA SCHMID

so well.

BETH MCMULLEN

I have published a lot of books and I have had feedback delivered to me in a lot of different ways. And even if you're saying to yourself, I'm tough, I can take the criticism, I know it's not personal. And that's your logical brain. Your sort of emotional brain that's still 12 years old is like, you hurt my feelings and now I feel bad. And I never want to make anybody feel that way about writing. It is supposed to be this glorious thing. And yes, absolutely hard at times, but it's never supposed to make you feel bad about yourself as a human being. Like that is not the right way. And that advice doesn't work. So like, I want my clients to take what I'm giving them and use it to make themselves better. I do not want them. to feel repelled by it because it was delivered in such a way that they can't even see it. I was repelled by it. Yeah. I mean, the only thing, I guarantee the only thing you remember from that feedback is hot mess.

LISA SCHMID

That's the only thing I remember. But I have to say, it did motivate me to figure out why I was a hot mess. And thus began the journey of Lisa. And I'm still a hot mess. You know,

BETH MCMULLEN

I was going to say, wait, are we like, have we achieved not hot mess status? I don't think so. I think there's still work for us to do. Oh,

LISA SCHMID

my God. And just as a side note, you had to deal with me yesterday during where I told you about a hot mess situation, which one line. I lamented about one line in my book. It can happen.

BETH MCMULLEN

can happen. And, you know, if, say, for instance, you were a client, that would be the exact situation where I talk you off a cliff.

LISA SCHMID

I know, poor Leslie. Anyway, so what is, give me, because you've worked with people at this point a lot. And I would like, what is the average, like, I know you've had breakthroughs. And I know I'm thinking of one person in particular that has gone on and done really well with. So tell me, what's like the typical breakthrough you're seeing when you're working with someone?

BETH MCMULLEN

I think the big. The biggest one is that a lot of people show up with this feeling of being overwhelmed. Like they just, and I swear to you, after so many books, I still feel this way when I have a manuscript that is done and I have pages of notes and I don't know what to do or I'm stuck in the middle and I'm thinking, wait, is this just DOA, this whole thing? I've been working so hard and I thought I had a path and now I'm lost and I don't know where to go. Or I'm just super stressed out and not able to get my arms around the idea. I know what I want to do. I just don't know how to do it. So those feelings of being overwhelmed, I typically see writers reach a place of more clarity. And by that, I mean, they kind of let go of that pressure of, oh my God, I have to do everything at once. and start seeing the revision or the changes or the development that they need to do as a step -by -step process, right? So instead of seeing the whole huge world of change that you need to accomplish, you're instead seeing step one. First, I have to do this, and then I can do that. And that gives them a sense of control. is probably the right word. Like you feel you have some control over where you're going and how you're going to get there. That's the biggest thing that I see. I also see a little bit of a shift from doubting yourself to trusting yourself a little bit more, maybe like a little bit of gaining of confidence. Because once you do this, once you start figuring out how to get your arms around the changes and execute the plan that you have, you're like, oh yeah. I can totally do this. No big deal. Well, maybe not no big deal, but you know you can do it. And that gives you an absolute feeling of confidence that you can proceed in a way that's not just going to be a giant waste of time for everybody. Another thing, I know that all the writers out there are very familiar with that sense of dread we have when we hit a wall, whatever that wall is. That sense of, do I get around this wall? Is this wall forever? Is my writing career over? Am I horrible? All of those questions that we ask ourselves that fill us with dread. I think that a lot of these writers feel better about the process. So the wall that they've encountered, okay, it's not great. I wish there wasn't a wall, but at least I feel like I can get around it if I just work. the problem. If I follow the steps, if I adhere to the roadmap that we've laid out, I'm going to get around the wall. So you're not feeling so much dismay at finding yourself back in a place where you don't know what to do. So those, I think, are probably the main things that I see, those sorts of changes that I see in the writers that I work with.

BETH MCMULLEN

sorts of changes that I see in the writers that I work with.

LISA SCHMID

So this last question is for me. I mean, it's for everyone.

LISA SCHMID

What's one thing a stuck writer can do to like move forward on something that they're working on?

BETH MCMULLEN

Okay. So lately I'm totally obsessed with log lines and those are those one sentence descriptions of your story. Something that encapsulates the entire thing in one sentence. And I know it sounds impossible, but it's not. So this is what I mean. I did one for Mrs. Smith's Spy School for Girls, which was my first middle grade series. When 12 -year -old Abigail Hunter is sent to what she thinks is a posh boarding school, she discovers it's actually a secret training ground for young spies, and she just might be their newest recruit. So, like, this is what my story is about, and this is where I'm going. If you struggle with coming up with a log line... It might mean that you yourself are not totally clear on this story you're trying to tell, that you're not totally able to encapsulate the beginning, the middle, and end of the story. It might mean that things need tightening. You need to think about things more. I think it's a really fast way to get to the heart of what potential problems you might have or will have with the manuscript. And it's really easily done. Like just sit down and do it. And if you want examples of log lines, look for descriptions on like Netflix. Honestly, every description of a show or a movie or whatever is essentially a log line. It's a really good example. So that's what you, that's what they should do. That's if you're stuck, try doing that.

LISA SCHMID

It's good advice because I was, as you were talking, I was thinking about this book I'm working on and do know where it's going, but I just, yeah. I'm stuck. See? Stuck.

BETH MCMULLEN

We'll get into that later.

BETH MCMULLEN

We'll be talking offline shortly. We'll be talking offline after this, but we will not make everybody listen to, well, how to get unstuck. But honestly, the logline is a really good way to just kind of, because that should, you should be able to produce that. Pretty easy. I'm not saying it's not going to change as you work through your manuscript, but you need to start with a sense of what it is that you're trying to do. What is the story you're trying to tell? And that's a great way to just get the idea down in front of you.

LISA SCHMID

to start

BETH MCMULLEN

the idea down in front of you. And then maybe when you see it, you're like, no, that's not really the story I'm trying to tell. I got to do some, I got to do some work and change some things.

LISA SCHMID

Are you working with any genre specifically? Are you trying to narrow your focus? Are you working with? Yeah, I have actually narrowed my focus a lot to middle grade writers.

BETH MCMULLEN

Yeah, I have actually narrowed my focus a lot to middle grade writers. Primarily because I have, well, it's funny because I have, I'm not writing middle grade at the moment myself. I'm writing, I'm working on an adult book at the moment. But I have so much experience in middle grade. I know this industry inside and out. I am very up to date on everything that's going on in that space. So I feel like it's a place that I can do a serious value add just because of my experience. And I think that's what I'm really focused on right now. It doesn't mean that I'm happy to help. adult writers and writers in other spaces I would say I'm not your girl if you're like into serious sci -fi that's not something I do very well I don't do non -fiction I don't do memoir but I think I like I like the middle grade space because I am really clear on what works I know what you have to do to get your book ready for the world yeah good advice all good advice we're good you're a good book coach

LISA SCHMID

advice all good advice we're good you're a good book coach I can speak from personal experience.

BETH MCMULLEN

It's funny being a guest on my own podcast. So now I have to say, thank you so much for coming. We so enjoyed chatting with you. And then I have to say to myself, oh, this was so great. I really enjoyed it. Thanks for having me. It's a little schizo, don't you think?

LISA SCHMID

A little bit, a little bit. But it was that, you know what? This was actually, and I think I said this at the top of the show, that this was my idea. And it's because you've always helped me so much that I... Just thought, oh my gosh, we've got this podcast and we need to talk to you about you.

BETH MCMULLEN

Well, this was fun. And again, if you want to reach out to me, I'm never going to put any pressure on you. Just email me. My email is everywhere. I'll put it in the podcast notes. I do offer a discount to listeners. So when you email, just tell me you heard me on the show or you listen to the show. You don't even have to have listened to this episode. So yeah, I'm happy to talk about whatever is plaguing you. Because writing is such a lonely experience. I haven't had this sort of going down the rabbit hole on a manuscript that I'm working on in so long. So this book that I'm writing has completely sucked me into the vortex. And I swear to God, the other day I went 10 hours and I didn't even move. I didn't move from my seat. I didn't talk to anybody. I was completely obsessed. So I think it is a lonely. business and sometimes it's just nice to have somebody who you can talk to about the writing like your friends your spouse your kids whoever sometimes they're like what I don't know what you're talking about it's nice to have somebody to help you figure out what you're doing I was this last weekend I went to a couple different book launches and I gave a ride to one of one of my friends and it's a gal that has like just

LISA SCHMID

was this last weekend I went to a couple different book launches and I gave a ride to one of one of my friends and it's a gal that has like just Like just within this year, she got three book deals or no, three picture books or deals and a couple of them are already coming out. So this has been a few years, I guess. And then a chapter book series. And we were driving there and I'm like, oh my gosh, your parents must be so proud of you. And she's like, yeah, I think they are. And I just said, you know what? And I said, nobody in the world will ever understand what a big deal it is to get a book unless you're in the publishing industry and know how difficult it is. Because you just, nobody outside will ever be able to comprehend the magnitude of an accomplishment that a book deal is. Or everything that we have to do, like all these steps, like going through book coaching, like there is years of work and sweat and, you know, just sitting by yourself that you put into this piece of work before it actually reaches and becomes a book deal. And so that's the one thing. It's like people outside our industry. have no idea. And when you say I got a book deal, they're like, Oh, that's nice. Like I was talking to my son the other day and I'm like, Hey, you know, I got this news and he's like, Oh, that's nice. And I'm like, Oh my God. It's so, so true. But it's true. So it's like nobody outside is ever going to ever completely understand no matter how much you say it about what you're putting into it or what you're doing. So having somebody inside and especially like a book coach, you know, again, I, my hot mess gal, she may have not been super helpful, but she got me on the right path. And she motivated you in a nice way,

BETH MCMULLEN

she motivated you in a nice way, but it's still the end result is here you are today.

LISA SCHMID

the end result

LISA SCHMID

But yeah, like everyone also just kudos to you if you're out there working on a book or, you know, we all know, we know right here sitting in the seat, how hard you're working and what an accomplishment it is just to sit down and actually get words on paper. Like that is crazy.

BETH MCMULLEN

And that's why we do the show to help you, you know, help you get from point A to point B, the writing to the publishing. That's what we're all about here.

LISA SCHMID

all about

BETH MCMULLEN

So, all right, that's enough of us blathering on and on and on or blithering. I don't know. I don't know which word. I've lost the capacity for words. Thank you for joining us. Come and say hello on our socials. And if you have questions for our next Ask Beth and Lisa episode, send those along. That will be next month. And remember the best way to support the show, if you like the show, is to buy our books and you can find our books everywhere and anywhere. There are links. in the podcast notes. There are links on our websites. There's links on writerswithwreckles .net. So visit those, buy the books, buy them for your friends, whatever. And on August 18th, that's the day that Barb Hopkins is coming to talk to us all about self -publishing. And we are very excited, as you know already, about that episode. We hope to learn a lot. And I promise you, you will learn a lot too. So until then, happy reading, writing, and listening. Bye, Lisa. Bye Beth. Bye guys.