The One About Taylor Swift (and some other stuff, too)

Beth and Lisa react in real-time to Taylor Swift’s engagement, connecting it to creativity, storytelling, and the writing life. They also dive into lessons on “first pages,” share a cautionary tale from a tough SCBWI conference, and tease details of their upcoming Writers With Wrinkles retreat.

Guest Bio
No guest this week—this is an Ask Beth & Lisa episode featuring co-hosts Beth McMullen and Lisa Schmid.

Key Discussion Points

• Taylor Swift’s Engagement: Beth and Lisa discuss the news, likening Taylor’s relationship to a rom-com and exploring how her songwriting may evolve now that she’s writing from happiness rather than heartbreak.
• Creativity and Emotion: How emotional upheaval, trauma, and personal history often fuel strong storytelling—and the challenge of sustaining creativity as life stabilizes.
• First Pages: Why first pages matter so much in grabbing readers, agents, and editors; common pitfalls like info-dumping; and how to balance polish without getting stuck rewriting forever.
• SCBWI Conference Flashback: A harsh “first pages” critique session that traumatized attendees serves as a cautionary tale about feedback done without kindness or actionable advice.
• Upcoming Retreat Plans: Beth and Lisa reveal they are scouting a wine-country location for the Writers With Wrinkles Workshop & Wine Retreat planned for Spring 2026. Expect fun, inspiration, and spider-free accommodations.
• The Waiting Game in Publishing: Lisa shares her experience of being on submission with a new middle-grade novel, reminding writers that rejection and silence are part of the process—and that community helps ease the wait.

Conclusion
This episode blends pop culture joy with practical writing wisdom, offering listeners both lighthearted fun and thoughtful reflection on the writing journey. Beth and Lisa invite listeners to sign up for the newsletter, follow on socials, and prepare for upcoming episodes—including an interview with agent Shayla Knigge of Highline Literary Collective dropping September 15.

Mentioned Links

• Writers With Wrinkles Website
• Think your first page is wrinkle-free? Send us up to 350 words—anonymously, of course—and find out. [full details here]

Transcript

BETH MCMULLEN

Hi, friends. I'm Beth McMillan. And I'm Lisa Schmid. And we're the co -hosts of Writers with Wrinkles. This is season four, episode 19. And this is an Ask Beth and Lisa episode. But really, we're just going to talk about Taylor Swift getting engaged. Oh, my God.

LISA SCHMID

I can't even. We just found out minutes before. I know you guys aren't hearing this until Monday. But we literally just found out that Taylor got engaged. And I found out from Beth. my god what is the world can you believe i was ahead of the curve on this one i got a i got a text in one of my group chats that didn't say it directly kind of alluded to it and i was like wait a minute so then i had to jump right on instagram and find the news okay but like how sort of i feel like their relationship could be

BETH MCMULLEN

was ahead of the curve on this one i got a i got a text in one of my group chats that didn't say it directly kind of alluded to it and i was like wait a minute so then i had to jump right on instagram and find the news okay but like how sort of i feel like their relationship could be a rom -com like you could take the exact structure of their relationship and put it into a rom -com and it would work perfectly right like it is life imitating fiction do you know what i mean yeah it's it's the perfect love story i mean just it's everything that she's ever written about she's ever

LISA SCHMID

it's the perfect love story i mean just it's everything that she's ever written about she's ever You know, she was that girl in school that didn't have any friends and was on the bleachers. And, you know, she's ending up with a football player. She's got the hot football player. Oh, my God. The human exclamation point. What a way to describe another person.

BETH MCMULLEN

She's got the hot

BETH MCMULLEN

That's pretty amazing. I like their English teacher and your gym teacher are getting married. I've already cried. All right. How many times?

LISA SCHMID

How many times? You know what? When you first told me, I was like, Taylor. And I'm like, oh my God. And so I jumped on and I got like a little weepy. I'm going to cry now. Keep crying now, everybody. So I was wondering sort of in my head,

BETH MCMULLEN

was wondering sort of in my head, and I may have said this out loud to you already, but like her songs tend to be, you know, tend to come out of emotional upheaval. And a lot of good writing comes out of emotional upheaval, right? So she's going to be all blissed out, at least for a while. I know. So like, what kind of songs is she going to write? I'm actually super curious to hear the new album when it drops, because that was sort of the Travis era.

LISA SCHMID

know.

BETH MCMULLEN

And I want to know, like, what's the topic? Like, what is the top topics that she's covering in her songs now?

LISA SCHMID

Pretty interesting. And it's so funny that you say that because one of the things I was thinking about is I feel like each time I write a book, it gets harder and harder for me to like, you know, when I first started writing Ollie Oxley, I had so much childhood baggage to unpack. that, you know, so much of that went into that first story. So I could just sit down and be like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, right away. And then the next story, it was like, it was like that again. And the next story, I was like, it shouldn't be issue driven. And so then this story, I'm like, what issue can I tap into to like, get me, you know, what pain can I dive into to help, like, get me through the story? Because it's like, the more angsty I am about a topic. the more motivated I am to sit down and write it. And so it's like, all of a sudden I was thinking, I have so many trauma incidents in my life I could tap into from my childhood. Which one do I want to pick?

BETH MCMULLEN

childhood. Which one do I want to pick? I think a lot of people feel that way. It's much easier to write about bigger emotions that you've experienced because it's the more subtle ones that I think are harder to define for yourself. So they're harder to write about. And that, I think it's, I think that creative people, a lot of creative people do tap into that stuff that they're carrying around in order to get that emotion on the page, which is usually the hardest part about writing a book. But it's, I think you're, you have to be good at translating past trauma into some sort of present moment so that you can, you can mine it for stuff creatively. So I'm. I'm just really curious how this is going to play out for her. I feel the same way that you do. Like sometimes I feel that when you're younger too, you have more emotional up and down. I think as you get older, your emotions kind of level off. They even out. Do you have a little bit more? Okay, maybe not you. Maybe not me either, but just for those at home,

LISA SCHMID

those at home, nobody could see my face. I should take a picture of that and post it.

BETH MCMULLEN

I should take a picture of that and post it. That was your look of what are you talking about? But they're less like, I think it's less dramatic than when you're a teenager, right? Those teenage emotions, which are like crazy. I feel like it's just, it's not as pointy as it was when you were younger. Or maybe that's just, I haven't had enough caffeine. Maybe that's what that's all about.

LISA SCHMID

maybe that's

LISA SCHMID

No, that's a good word. You're right. But I do think that you, some of the best art comes from like that whole saying, you have to suffer for your art. I think it's true because I think some of the best writing, you know, or storytelling comes from some deep pain that you're like digging through and putting on the page or putting on a canvas.

BETH MCMULLEN

Well, we will all be waiting breathlessly to see what Taylor's next album is like. Then again, you know what she does well? Cause we could talk about this all day and it's our podcast. So we can. I think she is a remarkable storyteller, and she does tell stories in her songs that are clearly not from her own life. One of my favorite songs of hers, and I'm blanking on the name of it, is about going after and killing the man who killed her best friend. It's a great song. I freaking love that song. I'm blanking on the title. I can't believe it. But it's like, I play it all the time. And obviously that hasn't happened, right? But she's really good at spinning up these little vignettes into songs. So I'm excited to see if she does more of that because it's like just another way into creating those emotions and those sensations that she does with her music.

LISA SCHMID

a great song. I freaking love that song. I'm blanking on the title. I can't

BETH MCMULLEN

those emotions and those sensations that she does with her music. So I'm fingers crossed for more of that stuff. I love those songs.

LISA SCHMID

You say it didn't happen, but we don't know it didn't happen.

BETH MCMULLEN

Right. But I'm assuming that she didn't murder the man who murdered her best friend. I'm just going out on a limb here. I feel pretty confident. I can see her doing that. Maybe she knows somebody, though, who did it. I don't know where it came from, but I love the song. That's a good song. I love that song.

LISA SCHMID

doing that.

LISA SCHMID

song. That's a good song. I love that song. You know what? There is not a song of hers I don't like. And every time I listen to him when I'm on my walks and I'm always deciphering them and just thinking,

BETH MCMULLEN

time I

LISA SCHMID

listen to him when I'm on my walks and I'm always deciphering them and just thinking, you know, what, what was going on in this moment? Who's this about? Excuse me. And I think everyone does that. It's what makes her songwriting so fascinating. Cause you're just, you're really like listening to every word. And I don't do that with most songwriters. You know, most times I'm just like, I feel like a lot of songs don't paint that picture.

BETH MCMULLEN

like, I feel like a lot of songs don't paint that picture. Like there's no. picture for you to imagine like you can imagine the story unfolding like a movie or a book or whatever you can like see it you can feel it and a lot of music doesn't have that it's just kind of like some song thrown together by you know I don't know it's just not the I mean some of it does but not all of it does and I feel like that that's the stuff that I like to listen to yeah it's good

LISA SCHMID

So congratulations, Taylor. I know that you're a listener.

BETH MCMULLEN

congratulations, Taylor.

BETH MCMULLEN

She's going to be so happy that we're paying attention along with, I think when I saw the Instagram post, I don't know, an hour or so ago, it already had like 5 million people liking it. So that's, you know, par for the course, right? She is the woman who created an earthquake with her concert. So we should expect nothing less.

LISA SCHMID

Well, and she had the pictures. Oh my God. I know they were really cute. So cute. They look, I just, it's too much. And you know what? And in a world filled with craziness right now, it's nice to have such a lovely moment where we can all like. It is a little piece of positivity around the world.

BETH MCMULLEN

know they were really cute.

LISA SCHMID

where we can all like. It is a little piece of positivity around the world. There's like a little, I can't think of anything that would bring more joy.

LISA SCHMID

like. It is a

BETH MCMULLEN

around the

LISA SCHMID

can't think of anything that would bring more joy. It's a little ripple of hope and happiness. Yes, it is a little ripple of hope and happiness. Oh my God, there's thunder outside. Can you hear that where you're at? It rained on me this morning.

BETH MCMULLEN

this morning. It did. Very strange. We're in strange times indeed here in the world. So this episode is a little bit like, really, we just want to talk about Taylor Swift the whole time, but we do have a few other things we're going to talk about. Let's start with what we've been discussing about what we're calling first pages. Yes.

LISA SCHMID

So we were critiquing first pages, Beth and I were, a couple days ago. And it reminded me, I went to a CBWI event and they did first pages like up on, like in the, it was like not a keynote, but it was like the whole conference was in this room and people had voluntarily given their first pages, like their first page. to put up on the big screen. And then editors and agents were critiquing it in real time. And they were vicious. It was like the whole room was uncomfortable. And I remember just thinking, oh my God, these poor writers are traumatized. I mean, I still have PTSD over it. And I messaged my critique partner, Catherine, and I'm like, do you remember that? Were you with me that day? And she's like, oh my God, I just got sick to my stomach thinking about it. we're not doing that.

BETH MCMULLEN

That was my first SCBWI kid lit anything conference. Like I had literally just sold my first kids series. And I was like, well, I better get to know this space because I don't know it at all. I had been writing for adults before that. So I went to the conference and it was a one day thing, local, like a regional thing. And they did that. They put those things up there and they tore these people apart. And I, was horrified. I was like, wait, these are kidlit writers. They're supposed to be nice and cuddly and kind. And I literally, I was like backing out the door slowly trying to get, I was, I was so freaked out by that.

LISA SCHMID

It was too. I mean, our whole, you could feel it in the room. It was like, there was just like an uncomfortable, like wrestling and like mentally just like cringing and. You know, I knew a couple of the writers and I just wanted to go over and hug them. And, you know, they didn't expect that. Nobody expects that. And so there's, you know, as we always say, there's a kind way to critique.

BETH MCMULLEN

I think that would make it really hard to share your work after that, because not one of them. was treated with any sort of dignity or respect. It was really, it was really rugged. When I do, you know, give feedback, obviously in book coaching and whatnot, like it has to be constructive. There has to be a,

LISA SCHMID

It was really,

BETH MCMULLEN

There has to be a, an actionable purpose to it other than your personal taste. Yeah. You know, you can not like something, but it can work just fine. And that. You know, your personal taste needs to be put to the side when you're looking at this sort of work, because I don't like every kind of book. You know, I have very specific tastes for my own, you know, pleasure reading. But like when you're looking at something professionally, you have to put that aside and just be providing actionable feedback for people so they have something to do. We all know the psychology. It helps to present that with a little bit of positivity. So people are open to hearing the suggestion. If you shut down because you feel like you're being attacked, then all that work the person did in preparing the feedback is pointless because you're not going to get any of it.

LISA SCHMID

Yeah. So we were talking about doing first pages on air. We put up a little poll in the waiting room to see what people thought. And people seemed very excited. The only, I had like a little poll set up and it was like, yes, that sounds like fun. Yes, I would participate. No, that sounds cringe. And the last one was, I'd rather eat a bucket of worms than have you read my first pages on air. And like one person responded to that as like clicked on that in the poll. It was probably somebody who was traumatized at that conference. It was.

BETH MCMULLEN

poll. It was probably

LISA SCHMID

It was somebody who was at that conference.

BETH MCMULLEN

That totally tracks. That totally tracks. Because honestly,

LISA SCHMID

we won't be doing that.

BETH MCMULLEN

that. When I hear first pages, that's the first thing that I think about. I think about that day in that giant conference room and how I was like. there are souls dying in here right now. You can hear their souls like leaving their body and floating up to space.

LISA SCHMID

that day

LISA SCHMID

can hear their souls like leaving their body and floating up to space. I know that was horrible. But we, I love doing first pages. Like first pages are so much fun because you can like, you can see the potential or you can see how it already shines. And, you know, you can see from a reader just like, oh my gosh, you know, I would do this or I would do that. And you can tell so much about the potentially successful structure of the story from the first page.

BETH MCMULLEN

can tell so much about the potentially successful structure of the story from the first page. You get a sense of if they're starting in the right place, are they going to be able to capture the attention of a kid who's like quasi addicted to TikTok? You know, there is so much that needs to happen in those first pages that I think they can become a little bit intimidating if you think about it too much. It's nice to get feedback on those first pages, regardless of where you are in the process. You could have a whole fully done manuscript. You could be just a third in, but getting feedback on those first pages sometimes helps you realign stuff that you need to fix sooner rather than later, especially, and we've talked about this on the show and I've talked about this in my sub stack, you're competing with so many people for an agent. If you're in that stage, if you're querying agents, you're competing with so many people. And if your first pages are not snappy and polished and attention grabbing, then you're you're you're climbing a hill it's hard yeah so my my historic missteps are always instructive with my first pages katherine again my critique partner um always she the first two books i wrote she was she always is like

LISA SCHMID

yeah so

BETH MCMULLEN

my my

LISA SCHMID

historic missteps are always instructive

LISA SCHMID

my first pages katherine again my critique partner um always she the first two books i wrote she was she always is like Info dump on the first chapter, your story starts in chapter two. And it's always so painful because I'm like, I like chapter one. But then I look at it and it's like, I'm data dumping, like I'm info dumping. And so many people do that in the first chapter. So on this third book I wrote, I was so careful. I'm like, no info dumping, no info dumping. And I finally, I kept it. I started it in the right place. But it's just, that's what we do is we're working out the story. we're often putting all that information in the first pages instead of organically dropping it into the story. And that's the biggest thing I see with other people too.

BETH MCMULLEN

that's the biggest thing I see with other people too. And like what you just said, like you've figured that out about yourself now. So even if you wrote that chapter one as an info dump just to get yourself started, you know you're not going to keep it. Like it's not going to be your true chapter one. So I think as we progress through different projects and we become better writers, we start to realize those things that we do. If your first or second time around, you know, that you feel like you have to start with all this information where really that's just dragging you down. Yeah, it's first pages are complicated. And remember, we went to this conference and this is a cautionary tale. And this was years ago. And there was a person there who had come to the conference multiple times, like would come every year and had been coming every year for like six or seven years.

BETH MCMULLEN

They were essentially just rewriting the first five chapters of the same book during that entire time. They had never gotten beyond the beginning. So first pages, yes, they need to be sharp and polished and wonderful, but you also can't get so hung up on them. You never actually write anything else. And that person also scared me. I was scared by the conference and I was scared by that person. I was like. It felt to me like she was in this continuous groundhog day of first pages. I know.

LISA SCHMID

know. We each got kind of funky little leaders.

BETH MCMULLEN

That was traumatizing. Someday we'll bring a bottle of wine on the show and we'll gush about that particular conference. It was crazy. Anyway, so we're thinking about doing first pages on the air. Obviously, they would be completely anonymous. Your name would never be mentioned. You would get all the feedback, like we'd write it up for you too. So you can have it to use in the future. We have not figured out a mechanism to ask you to submit. I think we'll think about it a little more and then include details in the newsletter, the web, the podcast newsletter, which you can sign up for on our website. You guys should know that by now. So yeah, we're going to mull that over. It seems like people would be into it. So I think we're going to go ahead and try to do it. And of course, we're always trying new things on the show. Some work, some don't. We'll see how it goes.

LISA SCHMID

I don't like, we kind of switch around a lot. We, and this is what happens at three in the morning for me, is I start thinking about random stuff. And that's when the first, I was like, ooh, first pages. Those could be fun because I love doing first pages.

BETH MCMULLEN

I love

LISA SCHMID

doing first

BETH MCMULLEN

doing first pages. I think it would be really fun. I think it would be really fun. And I think we could, we could. We can help people who are maybe stuck, maybe have questions or just like, I don't know if this is any good. All of those little anxieties that come up about first pages. I think it would be fun. We also should we talk about the retreat to consider all of our like brainstorming because every September we start to like roll out new stuff and think about new things to do so that we don't get boring. I mean, we're already. but do we need to be boring? No.

LISA SCHMID

So this is something that we threatened to do this a couple of years ago. We never, we were like, oh, let's do a retreat. Let's do a retreat. And then we started looking into it and we're like, oh, this is hard. I know. I know. We folded under the pressure.

BETH MCMULLEN

folded under the pressure. We're not going to do that.

LISA SCHMID

do that. We totally did.

BETH MCMULLEN

totally did. We have spreadsheets, everybody. We have spreadsheets.

LISA SCHMID

Not even just spreadsheets, but we have actually contacted a location and gotten pricing. And we are going to said location next month to scout. Yes, we're scouting. We're scouting the town out to make sure it is like a fun place. We already know it's a fun place to go. It's cute as all about. We're not going to tell anybody where it is until we have a big reveal.

LISA SCHMID

town out

BETH MCMULLEN

to go. It's cute as all about. We're not going

LISA SCHMID

a big reveal.

BETH MCMULLEN

a big

LISA SCHMID

But I will say it involves a wine country. venue ish kind of thing which is very exciting I don't know if it's exciting for us nurse but it's exciting for me but it's super it's a super cute town and and it's just very picturesque and it'll be a fun place to travel to because if you're going to travel to go to a workshop you don't want it to be some funky little place you want it to be a place where you can go and have, you know, like lunchtime, go to a fun little restaurant or dinner or go see, you know, go do something. You want it to be cute. Yeah.

BETH MCMULLEN

That's important. You want it to not be like in my head. I always think that I want my writers retreats and conferences and stuff to be in places that are exactly opposite of all the places I had to go for lacrosse tournaments in my life. So they need to be on polar opposite sides. Like I want cute and, you know, picturesque stuff that I can put in an Instagram if I want to, as opposed to the places that I ended up for lacrosse tournaments where I was like, if I have to go to another Chipotle, I'm going to scream.

LISA SCHMID

So we went to, we went to one, one workshop that was at, it was a three day workshop, three or four day workshop. Beth and I went and it was at a monastery, which is actually kind of cool. It was actually really cool.

BETH MCMULLEN

was actually really cool. It wasn't a working. There were, you know, we weren't like hanging out with the religious folk.

LISA SCHMID

It wasn't

LISA SCHMID

like hanging out with

BETH MCMULLEN

folk.

LISA SCHMID

folk. So we go there and so we check in and Beth and I have separate rooms. So we check in Beth to Beth's room first and I go look at it. She's got like, it's a big room and there's two beds. And I think you must've had like a full kitchen or something. I don't know what you had, but yours was like, you had this really big room. And so then they're like, yeah, yours is on the other side of the property. And so I'm like, okay. So, you know, kind of trudging along, going to the other side of the property and we walk by. And in there's like this little corner by outside this, you know, building was this giant spider web with this giant spider that was like black and yellow. I mean, it was a monster. I still have a picture of it. And I'm like, it's like the size of a small dinner plate. It was, oh my God, it was huge. And I remember saying specifically, God, whoever has that room, that sucks for them. Surprise.

LISA SCHMID

my God, it was huge.

LISA SCHMID

And it's like outside my window. In my tiny little room that was the size of a bathroom. It had like a tiny. Single little bed. Like tiny, tiny little bed with like a little wood table. Like not even like a nice end table. And then that was it. That was what was in the room. And I think there may have been like a fan that was like. You were in like a horror movie. I slept with the lights on because I was afraid a spider was going to make its way into the room and onto my face. It was so big. And then I didn't want to kill it because I'm like, well, that's not cool. That's just like bringing in its friends and family. I know. I know. So you don't want to kill it, but you also don't want to get up close and personal with it either.

BETH MCMULLEN

to get up close and personal with it either.

LISA SCHMID

That's all I could think about the whole time I was there. That and the fact that we got in trouble. from one of the faculty because we were sitting outside drinking wine and eating Tostitos and chips and dip. We were laughing. We were laughing too loud.

BETH MCMULLEN

laughing. We were laughing

LISA SCHMID

too loud.

BETH MCMULLEN

Okay, so at our retreat, you will be allowed to laugh as loud as you want to. We don't have any rules about that. And we'll look out for spiders.

LISA SCHMID

so at our retreat,

BETH MCMULLEN

we'll look out for spiders. We will look out for spiders. We will spider sweep before the event. So yeah, so we're putting together the details. We will share them with you probably in October. Because that's after we go and scout the location and figure out all the nuts and bolts. And obviously we will want you guys to come because we want to hang out with you in person instead of this sort of asynchronous way that we do now with the podcast. So we already have a name for the retreat.

LISA SCHMID

we already have a name for the retreat. And shocker, I came up with it.

LISA SCHMID

It's Writers with Wrinkles Workshop and Wine Retreat.

BETH MCMULLEN

And you can put the workshop first or the wine first. Totally depends on what you're in the mood for. Right? My God. Yeah. We like the W's clearly because, you know, that's on brand with the Writers with Wrinkles. So, of course, wine. Of course, workshop.

LISA SCHMID

you're in the mood for.

BETH MCMULLEN

It's going to be fun. And they'll be crying at some point.

LISA SCHMID

they'll be crying at some point. But Lisa promises she will cry at least once per day.

BETH MCMULLEN

Lisa promises she will cry at least once per day. Not necessarily about spiders, but we'll find something. We'll find something. Oh my God, so funny. You know, there'll be something.

LISA SCHMID

so funny. You know, there'll

BETH MCMULLEN

So that'll be fun. Keep your, so keep your eyes peeled for details on that in like October. We should be able to get out first pages info sooner than that. Retreat will be in the spring. So that'll be in the spring of 26. Yeah. So kind of,

LISA SCHMID

will be in the spring. So that'll be in the spring of 26. Yeah.

BETH MCMULLEN

of, you know, tentatively mark that off on your calendar. Of course, we will, we will narrow down to actual days soon.

LISA SCHMID

So we, my middle grade has been on sub and it's, you know, it's been on sub, I don't know, five, six weeks, but the first like week or two, probably first, you know, you get that, those initial rejections that like are dive bombing your agent's email, like little kamikaze rejections. And so I've gotten through my first wave of those and then it's been silence. And so I'm just, you know, I want to keep everyone abreast of the situation. It just is because we all, no matter what stage you are in your writing career or journey, the rejections come fast and furious.

BETH MCMULLEN

Well, and it's hard to understand it if you aren't a writer. Like, your writing people will understand what that feels like in the moment where regular people in your life will just be like, What? I had a conversation with somebody who's not a writer the other day where I said I had given my thriller to a beta reader and he sent me an email and he said, oh, five star beginning. I love the beginning, the characters, everything. It's so great. And instead of me saying, wow, isn't that nice? He liked the beginning. I was like, oh my God. The middle and the end are not going to measure up to the beginning. He's going to hate the rest of it. So I'm telling this to my friend and she was like, but aren't you happy that he liked the beginning? And I was like, no, that actually makes it worse because now I feel like I can fall off the cliff. I climbed up it. Now I'm going to fall off it in the middle and the end. And she was like, I don't understand any of this. Like, this doesn't make any sense to me. And I was like, yeah, because you can't understand unless you've done it. Yeah.

LISA SCHMID

Well, and I think there's like a, just almost a natural response for us to be just like, what would you, what's wrong with it? What's, you know, there's always another shoe that's going to fall or drop. And so,

BETH MCMULLEN

drop.

LISA SCHMID

yeah, no, it'll, it'll all be good. I'm, I'm sure of it. It's your next book deal. That's what I'm saying. It's your next book deal.

BETH MCMULLEN

saying. It's your next book deal. So, you know, we have to go through the hard parts before we get to the good part. But yeah, I think, I think just maybe keep in mind if you have writer friends who are in any stage of querying, treat them with kindness. Cause it's a, it's a, it's a crazy, it's a crazy step in the process.

LISA SCHMID

It is crazy. But then like we always say, it never stops. And that's why we have the waiting room. Cause then we can like. Talk about it.

BETH MCMULLEN

So you can wait with friends for, cause yeah, we're always in a, we're always in a stage of waiting for something to happen.

LISA SCHMID

And it just is, I always know like by two o 'clock, if there's no news, there's no news that day. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

BETH MCMULLEN

is,

BETH MCMULLEN

Yeah. And we're, we're, we're in Pacific time. So usually by the time. New York is shut down. You don't feel like you're going to hear much.

LISA SCHMID

I have this thing where I wake up on Monday morning and I immediately check my email to see if there's anything from Leslie. And if there's not, I'm like, I'm not getting anything this week. That's always my theory. And so far this week, I mean, the last couple of weeks, it's been true. I'm like, okay, nothing's coming in. Like I just, I'm not feeling it.

BETH MCMULLEN

it. And I've said this to you, the last two weeks of August are just like, nobody is doing anything. There's sort of that sense of like, if you have kids and school is starting, you're kind of focusing on that. Some people are on vacation the last two weeks of August. You're about to hit September when it feels like things ramp up. I feel like not hearing anything in the last two weeks of August is not indicative of anything. I feel like that's just the ebb and flow of the publishing. universe.

LISA SCHMID

that's just

LISA SCHMID

Yeah. I was at a, like a little SCBWI, like little event that was actually at my brewery. It was a PAL event. And I was just, you know, I was sitting there. I was like, yeah, I don't, I don't check my email anymore. I'm fine. I'm totally cool. Like whatever. And I'm like, oh my God, you're such a liar. Like what is happening to you? I'm like lying to these people right now.

BETH MCMULLEN

Sometimes you feel like if I just say it out loud, maybe I can manifest it. I can make it true in the background.

LISA SCHMID

background. I stopped checking email. I've just forgotten all about it. No, it's all cool.

BETH MCMULLEN

Seriously, there are days when I don't want to check my email. Like I wish I didn't have to check my email. I don't know. So those are all the topics that we had to cover. This was not really a very advice heavy episode. It was mostly like. hey, these are the things that we're going to be doing. And hopefully you guys are going to get excited about them and come along for the ride. And Taylor. And Taylor, I forgot. Really, this is the Taylor episode. I think that's what I'm going to name it. The Taylor episode. I know. You know what?

LISA SCHMID

know. You know what? I'm so happy for her. It just is dreamy. It's just dreamy. It is dreamy.

BETH MCMULLEN

is dreamy. And now I'm like, okay, where are they going to have their wedding? Who are they going to invite? And what's the wedding dress going to look like? And what am I going to wear? Yeah, what are you going to wear? You better start thinking about that. Maybe do some shopping.

LISA SCHMID

Just think about all the Taylor wedding parties that are going to go on that day. I bet all the Swifties are going to have parties where they dress up like they're going to the wedding. And can you imagine it? It's going to be so much fun. I love the Swifties are like a bundle of joy. You know,

BETH MCMULLEN

going to be so much

LISA SCHMID

know, they just are so kind to each other. And they're just, they're everything that I like about like fan groups.

BETH MCMULLEN

know, they just are

LISA SCHMID

everything that I like about like fan groups. They're just kind to each other. And you know what? She's totally worthy of it.

BETH MCMULLEN

to each other. And you know what? She's totally worthy of it. She is. Like a lot of times celebrities are not worthy of the adulation that they get. Like they just don't seem to have earned it. But she's totally worthy. She's a badass. She is worthy.

LISA SCHMID

Just what a kind heart. That's what I, that's what we all need right now. Are you going to cry again?

BETH MCMULLEN

Are you going to cry again? I might.

BETH MCMULLEN

This is going to be a two for episode. Geez. I know. All right. So let's wrap up. Thank all of you guys for joining us. Come and say hello on our socials. And if you have questions for our next Ask Beth and Lisa episode, which will be in September, send those along. You can find out how on our website, writerswithwrinkles .net, or use any of our social channels. Remember, again, sign up for our newsletter on the writerswithwrinkles .net so you don't miss any of the things that are coming up. Our next guest will be Shayla Knege. an agent with Highline Literary Collective. So that episode drops on September 15th. And we're very excited. The agent episodes are always a highlight on the show. So until then, happy reading, writing, and listening. Bye, Lisa.

LISA SCHMID

Bye Beth. Bye, guys.