How to Build a Lasting Author-Agent Relationship, with Agent Leslie Zampetti

In this episode of Writers With Wrinkles, Beth and Lisa welcome literary agent Leslie Zampetti for an honest and insightful conversation about what makes a successful author-agent relationship. From red flags to communication tips, aspiring authors will gain clarity on how to choose the right agent and navigate the business side of publishing.

Guest Bio

Leslie Zampetti is a literary agent with Open Book Literary, representing fiction and select nonfiction for children and adults. She champions underrepresented voices, especially disabled writers, and brings deep experience as a former librarian and writer. Connect with Leslie on Instagram and Twitter @LiteraryLeslieZ or visit www.openbooklit.com.

Key Discussion Points

• What agents look for in long-term author relationships
• Red flags and green flags when evaluating literary agents
• What authors should ask before signing with an agent
• How to handle communication breakdowns or ethical concerns
• Why pivoting genres (like from middle grade to cozy mystery) can reignite creativity
• How to know if your manuscript is ready to query
• The value of writing community and peer feedback
• The emotional and professional impact of publishing delays and burnout

Conclusion

This episode is packed with actionable advice for writers navigating the intimidating world of literary representation. Leslie Zampetti pulls back the curtain on the agenting process, giving listeners a real-world look at what agents value, how decisions are made, and how writers can position themselves for long-term success. Whether you're querying your first book or considering a genre shift, this conversation will leave you empowered and informed.

Links & Resources

• Leslie’s website: www.openbooklit.com
• Instagram/Twitter: @LiteraryLeslieZ
• Leslie’s Query Submission Link: QueryTracker - Leslie Zampetti
• Mentioned Resources:
  • Association of American Literary Agents (AALA)
  • Kate Allen Fox – Scratching the Surface
  • Apples & Honey Press

🎧 Subscribe & Connect

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Submit your questions for “Ask Beth and Lisa” at writerswithwrinkles.net or follow us on Instagram @writerswithwrinkles.

Transcript

BETH MCMULLEN

Hi, friends. I'm Beth McMullen. And I'm Lisa Schmidt. And we're the co -hosts of Writers with Wrinkles. This is Season 4, Episode 22. And today, we're excited to welcome Agent Leslie Zempeti to the show. After much experience as a librarian and writer, Leslie became a literary agent. Her award -winning and well -reviewed clients write fiction and select nonfiction for children and adults. She prioritizes stories by underrepresented voices, especially disabled writers. You can find Leslie on social media at LiteraryLeslieZ or at www .openbooklit .com. Welcome, Leslie. Thanks for coming back for a second time to the show to chat with us. We are very excited to have you here.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

Well, I'm very excited to be here. It's very flattering to be asked back and to do the second repeat, especially with so many agents out there and so many wonderful agents out there. I love my colleagues. I just attended the People of Publishing Conference in New York, and it was great to see so many folks working so hard to bring books into the world.

BETH MCMULLEN

I love that. I totally love that. And there are so many agents out there, but you hold a special place in our heart. So we're happy to have you back as the first repeat guest. I feel like there should be an award or a badge or something. I don't know. We're going to have to work on that. I'll come up with something.

LISA SCHMID

come up

BETH MCMULLEN

Leslie's my favorite agent. Well, that's good. I better be your only agent.

LISA SCHMID

good. I better be your only

BETH MCMULLEN

I was going to say, and your only agent, because that's how these things work. It's like having a favorite child, you know?

LISA SCHMID

We were saying before we started recording how much I'm always talking about Leslie and how much I love you and how lucky I am to have you as my agent. I don't know, like the literary gods were smiling upon me when I landed in your inbox.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

Well. They were definitely smiling on me. It's one of those things where when it's a good match, it's a good match. Everybody knows we all feel good. And hopefully we get to have a long and fruitful relationship.

BETH MCMULLEN

we get to have a

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

relationship.

BETH MCMULLEN

So before we jump into the questions, we wanted to just kind of get an idea of what books are coming out from your clients in the near future, what you're excited about, give you a chance to kind of brag about them a little bit, if you'd like. Sure.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

I actually have two picture book clients. Kate Allen Fox came out this fall with Scratching the Surface. It's an exploration of geology and her slayers from Capstone, and it's got some great art, and it's very interesting for those kids who are just fascinated by all things Earth. In November, Andrea Shapiro's a place called Galveston is coming out, and the tidbit here is Andrea queried me with a version of this story. way, way back. She kept querying me for about two years because she would write me and I would write back, this is a wonderful idea, but this is not here yet. I signed her. We continued to work on it. It started out as a picture book bio about Rabbi Henry Cohen, who was instrumental in having Eastern European Jews immigrate throughout Galveston, Texas, which is something I was fascinated. I'm Jewish myself. And I did not know that. I thought everybody came through Ellis Island. So we recreated it and Apples and Honey Press is bringing it out with a wonderful illustrator, Valeria Milanova.

LISA SCHMID

Amazing. Congratulations. See, I love those kinds of stories because some, so many times people think it's just. it's just kind of black and white that you submit to an agent and it's a yes or no, and that there's no gray area. And this just goes to show that there is that little wiggle room in that gray area that people can find somebody and it may not be a yes at first, but it's like a not right now pass kind of thing. Well,

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

I actually have gotten several of my clients that way now that I think about it because I have... So obviously we have form responses for queries since we get so many. And I have a no, this is not for me, for those that are widely out of my range. There's a not at this time for those things that, yes, it should be for me, but for whatever reason at this time, it's not. And then I have what I call the encouraging note, which is, I'd like to see more from you. This is interesting. And, you know, sometimes things take work. Sometimes it's a matter of bandwidth on my end. You just never know. But one of the things that it tells me. When somebody is constantly improving and still working on something they're sending me or they're sending me new work that shows their growth is, hey, this is an author I really want to work with because they take feedback, they continue to improve. They're not just trying to be sort of a one and done or I think I'm perfect as I am writer. They're just always working and exploring and writing in new ways.

BETH MCMULLEN

I think there's also, there's... A lot of question out there about when a manuscript is ready to query. And I think a lot of people don't know, because if it's your first time doing this, you're thinking to yourself, well, this is done. It's the best I can make it. And you're going to send it out. And it may be the case, as you're saying, that it's not ready yet. But it will be if you work on it some more. So I think there's also that just knowledge gap for first -time writers in understanding the level that maybe is polished enough and ready enough.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

There is definitely a knowledge gap, and that's understandable. I mean, there are no bad questions. The only bad question is the one you didn't ask, because how else are you going to learn? That's also why I really emphasize building a writing community around you, whether it's actually physically in person, or it's long distance through a group like Dinked Voices and online, or it's listening to podcasts like this one. You're still building a community. even if you're sort of a long -time lurker or first -time caller sort of situation, because you are trying to get that information. The one thing I would say is that if you just drafted it, it's probably not ready to send out. Probably does need some revision. And it helps to, again, build that community so you can share with people. Just like I'm sure Lisa does with you before she sends something to me, or when I had my writing partners when I was still trying to write for my own publication before I decided being an agent was more rewarding to me. You had people to say, you know, I think you've spent a lot of time on this and this is about as good as it's going to get. Let's take this out. Or it might be, I know you think it's ready and I would love for it to be ready, but it's not quite ready. It's not quite there yet.

BETH MCMULLEN

I work with some college -bound seniors who are working on college applications.

BETH MCMULLEN

-bound seniors who are working on college applications. And I just had a conversation with a student yesterday who...

LISA SCHMID

I just had a conversation

BETH MCMULLEN

I said, you know, we're going to revise this probably 10 times before it's ready to go. And she just looked shocked. And she said, I've never revised anything in my life. I was like,

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

like, welcome to adulting. Yeah. And that's actually, that makes me wonder like what kids are really learning in school because that's not good. I mean, it doesn't even have to be a big piece of writing.

LISA SCHMID

mean, it doesn't even have

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

You know, periodically I will, you know, forward an email to myself and I've drafted it because I need to think about that before I actually. reply and hit send. I don't want to just be pushing the button on those. Yeah.

BETH MCMULLEN

Okay. We have some good questions for you all around the author agent relationship. And the first one is what in your mind makes for a strong lasting partnership between an author and an agent, the kind of relationship that's going to span a career.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

So first and foremost, I think it has to be clear and transparent communication on both sides. Not only is your agent responsible to you for communicating in a timely fashion, even if it's just to say, I got this email, I'll have an answer in two weeks, or I need to dig into this some more and I'll let you know. It may be, yes, I've been following up with this editor or I've been following up on this contract and they haven't gotten back to me, but I am still working on it. That's really important, but it's also important for you as an author to reach out and ask the questions. If you don't feel comfortable asking your agent a question, to me, that's a little bit of a red flag because your agent is responsible to you. They report to you. It's a partnership, but if you feel like you can't talk to them, you know, then I want to know why.

LISA SCHMID

I feel like so many people are afraid to communicate with their agent. And that they're second guessing and calling each other, you know, call, what do you think? My agent said this, or my agent has replied or, you know, cause not everybody, we were just talking about earlier, how great you are communicating with me. If I don't hear from you, I am sending out a search party for Leslie Sam Petty. Like that, that's our relationship, but not everyone has that. And so if you don't ask and you're afraid to ask, it's your, your relationship isn't going to progress in a, in a good way.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

No, and I think that leads to sort of the second building block, which is you have to have trust and respect on those sides. Like not only do you need to trust and respect your agent, but they need to trust and respect you. And one of the things that we don't always talk about is how that agent -client relationship also impacts other clients' relationships in the world. If I can't trust my client to respond well or interact well with their editor... and might not be able to send further clients' work to that editor. And so for me, sometimes that's a red flag when I'm on the call with somebody and they're just not that polite. And I'm like, well, if you're not that polite to me, how are you going to treat other people in publishing? That behavior reflects on me just as much as it reflects on the person.

BETH MCMULLEN

It's such a small community, too. Yes, it really is. That's such a huge deal because there are just not that many people in this universe. And if you are behaving badly, everyone's going to know pretty quick.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

It's important just to be a good human, I mean, in publishing as well as in life. And I also think you need to be aligned in terms of your values and career strategy. You may not share all the same values necessarily, but it's important that you value the same things for publishing. I mean, it does you no good if you're like, I really need to sell three picture books in the next so many years. And I mean, an agent can't guarantee you that, but they can guarantee you that they are in fact setting your work out. If you're like, I really want to grow in distribution. Well, if your agent is only submitting. to really small presses that don't distribute through a larger distributor, is that really achieving your goals? If you really want to take time off and stop writing picture books and work on a novel, is your agent still sending out multiple picture books and you're having to revise them when you wanted to be working on your novel? You have to agree on what the way forward is.

LISA SCHMID

That's such a good answer because I think so many people really just... are kind of floundering and they don't, that's establishing like ground rules up front, kind of like what it is you want to work on, what your goals are.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

it is you

LISA SCHMID

your goals are. And I think that's something that you did with me right up front. And it's made, we've been together, how many years have we been together? We've been together a while now. A long time. Yeah.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

And it's

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

Almost as long as I've been agenting, which is not all that long in the scheme of things, but it's longer than I thought. As I had to say the other day at PopCard, I was like, oh, I'm a baby agent.

LISA SCHMID

I had to

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

One of my colleagues turned around and was like, sweetie, you started repping in 2018. I was like, oh, time flies when you're having fun. Yeah.

LISA SCHMID

You've been doing it. So my next question, and we kind of touched on this, but what are some red flags and or green flags that authors should watch for when considering representation?

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

Red flags are pretty easy. I mean, A number one, if your agent is trying to charge you for services and they are not disclosing the ethics of the situation, that's a problem. If they're saying, if you pay me for this editorial work, I can represent you, that's a big red flag. The Association of American Literary Agents, their website actually has a really nice explainer that goes through graphically when and when it is not permitted to have other services. They're looking at updating that because it is becoming harder to make a living as an agent. But one of the key points is that if you are paying for freelance editorial services, if that agent then offers you representation, they should be refunding you that money. Because that's not work you do for fee. That looks like pay to play, I guess is the best way to say it. I would say for new agents... you really want to focus less on their sales track record, but more on how are they being mentored? How are they growing into the business? If they're signing a ton of authors within a very short time, how are they doing all the work? I mean, this business takes time to learn. It takes time to ramp up. If they're at a reputable agency that has a track record of mentoring agents, you know somebody's keeping an eye on them. That's not to say that people cannot become agents and start their own agencies that have like prior publishing experience or other things, but you want to know that they have colleagues. I mean, I myself am a solo practice, but that's part of why I'm so involved in the AALA is to be able to have colleagues and friends that I can reach out to and say, hey, did you hear what's going on at this publisher? Or what are we all doing about this anthropic suit? Are you entering all your clients' info? Or no, I'm advising my clients to enter it themselves, but I'm keeping track of who has. You know, there's all different ways to deal with things, but you need to be able to share those viewpoints and you need to have somebody you can ask questions about.

LISA SCHMID

That's a really good point. One of the things I always appreciate about you so much, whenever there's something going on in the industry that you feel like you need to make us aware of as your clients, you always send out the information, always send out the links. And I know, you know, so I always know. Like, I know what's going on. I know that, you know, I was supposed to check my copyrights. Unfortunately, they were all there. And so, but I'm always surprised that is when I forward, I will forward your emails from to me with those links to certain friends I have because their clients, their agents don't share that information at all. I'm just like, here's a link. You need to check this out. And so having an agent that keeps you informed on what's going on in the industry, I think is really important.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

Well, I think that's, I mean, there are obviously personal preferences. I mean, some people would say for every email you send to your client with information they could get readily available on the web, that's time you could be doing other work for that client. I look at it as we're in this together for your career. These are things that are affecting your career. You need to be aware of how that is moving forward. And if it means I work a little later that day or I work, you know, on another time, then that's fine. We keep coming back to poor communication. Poor communication is a red flag. If somebody has, you know, set up a call with you and they're not very clear about why and you're on this call and you're wondering, is this an offer? Is this not an offer? What's going on here, really? That's a problem. I mean, people should be up front. I state on all my potential client calls that the first call, this is a get to know you call. And it's your chance to get to know me and ask questions. It's my chance to see if we're a fit or, you know, what else is happening here. And, you know, I make sure they know when I'm offering, I state it clearly. This is a formal offer. I'm following it up with an email that states this is a formal offer of representation. One other thing that can be a really big red flag is when an agent does not give you any time to consider things, whether that's their offer of representation or a contract, or they're not interested in sort of discussing terms of the contract with you. If they're rushing you, that's a problem because this is your career and your business. If you need to take time to understand what is happening, they need to give you that time or set up another time to discuss it.

BETH MCMULLEN

I really I like that one because I've heard stories of people where the agent in question will say, you have to decide right now. Like this is a this is only on the table right now. And that's crazy. Like that kind of trying to think with a gun to your head like that is just intense and doesn't lead to good outcomes. That sounds like a used car salesman.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

salesman. I mean, it feels like salesmen that are better than that.

BETH MCMULLEN

feels like salesmen that are better

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

like salesmen that are better than that. You know,

BETH MCMULLEN

I think, too, you have. Authors are so, we're so neurotic anyway. And like, you know, we're always in our own heads, good and bad. I think that sometimes you get people who are just so desperate for an agent to say yes, that they are not looking beyond the yes. They see the yes and then they decide, great, somebody likes me enough. I'm good enough. But they don't take a pause and check that person's resume. I think. What you said about mentoring, like that would be my biggest thing I'd be looking at for a newer agent who's not established. Like who is telling you how to do this? Like who's backing you up on this? I mean, that seems huge. And I think that desperation sometimes overrides good sense in authors making choices. So the only thing worse than not having an agent is having a bad agent and being in a bad situation.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

only thing worse than not having an agent is having a bad agent and being in a bad situation. Because then you have to get out of it. which is more complex and more problems. And it's really, I mean, this is serious business. I mean, I don't love comparing it to a marriage, but in some ways it is. I mean, you need to go into it mindfully and you need to think about what this is going to be because ideally it is a long -term relationship. Or if you're with a project by project agent, you want to be mindful enough to know that they're shepherding your work. I mean, you're trusting them with your creative output. That's a pretty big trust. That's why I like to say, again, green flags, good and clear communication, some sort of track record or sales or mentoring with other agencies. Colleagues, respect for your time and energy again. They need to respect you as much as you respect them. I personally believe that no agent should not provide client references in a draft agency agreement. You should be able to look at what you're signing before you sign it. Be able to talk to agency siblings and say, hey, what is your experience like? I mean, every agent -author relationship is a little different because every client is a little different. But you should still be able to know that they have clients who are happy with them and, you know, are able to attest that, yes, they like the way that this agent works. Or if nothing else, that... it's consistent and the agent hasn't told you one thing and they're like, oh, I am so good at timely communication. And then you ask, you know, their clients and the clients are like, they're great, but their idea of timely is, you know, they're going to get back to you in two weeks. So just be sure that you know that, contact them ahead of time. It'll be two weeks and you'll be all set.

BETH MCMULLEN

I think people sometimes get those references and they don't follow up. I think that's crazy. Like you really do need to follow. Set a little time aside and call those people and have some questions that you're going to ask them. And I mean, don't decide on anything until you do that.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

No, at least email them and have an email. And I mean, I heard a crazy story a while back that someone did not check all of the client references. And it turned out that one of the references was not a client of that agent.

BETH MCMULLEN

No, at least email

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

It was a client. That's really bold. It was a client at a former agency that the agent had formerly worked at, but they had not necessarily repped them. And it was like, okay, that's a problem. That's not really ethical.

BETH MCMULLEN

No, that's a giant red flag right there. See what's going on there.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

See what's going on there. Wow, that's crazy. I also really believe in, you know, listen to your gut.

BETH MCMULLEN

Yeah, that's actually a really good one in so many circumstances in life. Like if you feel weird and uncomfortable, that's meaningful. Yeah. So, okay. Taking all of this into account, what is the most crucial question an author should ask an agent before signing? If you could just, if you just narrow down to one, I know there's probably a hundred, but if you had to pick one, what would it be? I'm not sure I can do one.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

it be? I'm not sure I can do one. I can start with one, but then I have two others that are probably important. Okay. Let's say three questions. Three questions. Well, one, what is your communication style? Cause you want to make sure you mesh. If you're a texter, you don't want to be with the person who's like, I don't use the cell phone. how do you handle crises with a client? I mean, that could be the client having a crisis. It could be the publisher having a crisis, but you need to know how do they deal with emergencies? And most importantly, what happens if my book doesn't sell or doesn't sell quickly? Some agents will never admit the question.

BETH MCMULLEN

So you can say no. Yeah, but that's a really good question to ask.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

Yeah. You want to understand what their philosophy is going forward so that you can also be prepared.

LISA SCHMID

That's a good question to ask because I think so many people get in the situation where, you know, there's one, two, three rounds or they're like, am I going to go on a fourth round? Am I going to do, you know, what's going to happen next? And I think going back to kind of one of the things that we were talking about before, I think so many writers get in situations with agents where they're afraid to, you know, afraid to leave because it's like, oh my God, I've got an agent in hand. And now I have a book that's out on sub and that book will die if I leave that agent because, you know, you can't take it with you basically.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

Well, that's actually a little bit of a gray area. It depends on your agency agreement. Traditionally in the agency agreement, there are provisions that if the book sells within a certain period of time. to someone that agent has already submitted to they are entitled to a share of commission and or you cannot submit it for a certain period of time going forward but that doesn't necessarily mean the book is like completely dead again you really need to check over that agency agreement and see what's going forward if you do decide for any reason you're terminating with your agent you should tell them i would like you to spell out the termination clause again and what this means specifically with my situation So that you have something in writing to go forward with.

LISA SCHMID

If you got, if you received a query from a writer who's leaving an agent and their book had gone out already on one round. And so now they're, and then there's obviously something happens with that agent where it's not working. And now they're querying that same book. What, you know, what's that? That's kind of the big question. Yeah. Who's going to take on a book that's already been out on, you know, a round already? But it also depends on how far that's been around.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

Yeah.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

it also depends on how far that's been around. I mean, if I know that agent and we have a similar philosophy about subs, yes, I'm probably going to be a little more leery since I tend to do a pretty wide sub the first go. I don't really do rounds. I sort of do rolling subs. But it might be somebody who really works with a select. set of editors they have long -term relationships with those editors and you know maybe it hasn't been to a lot of places for me it's more important to know sort of what were the circumstances of that termination because so if it's amicable you're probably likely going to have to work with that agent so it's good to know who it is and what the situation is going forward if it's not amicable for some reason Then you want to know because particularly you want to avoid, you know, triggers for want of a better word with that client in terms of what's going forward. It's really hard. I mean, agents have different styles. Agents do things very differently, which is why mentorship is important and getting resources from other places is so important. But, you know. Yes, if someone is querying me, I usually take the query more seriously if they say this manuscript has never been on sub or this manuscript was on a limited submission because then you know you have something to work with right away. I also don't love when folks query me and it's obvious that they are focusing on a single book and they're not really moving forward. They're not really learning in their craft either. So if you're so obsessed with one particular book. what does that say for what's going to happen? Like, I don't really have any guarantee as a career agent that you're going to be writing other books. Yeah.

LISA SCHMID

And that's, I think, especially in the kid lit world right now, I think a lot of people are pivoting to other things, which is, you know, it's kind of scary for people to make that shift, but that's, you know, a long -term career. You have to make those choices to kind of keep moving forward and changing.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

And I do think it's healthy. I think it's healthy for us as authors. I mean, you know, I encourage my clients to write in different genres or write in different categories. You know, even if it's something that's not necessarily ever going to go on sub, all projects teach us. And it doesn't have to be a complete novel, but having that sense of play, as Sarah Aronson calls it, gives you something to enjoy. And it also, I think you do learn things about your craft that you don't when you're so focused on this project is for publication. Right. And sometimes you get a great surprise. I mean, yeah. Your agency said Kate Allen Fox. We announced an adult project where she came to me and said, I've collaborated with another picture book author who's an early childhood educator on a parenting book about play -based parenting. And I was like, you know, I don't really do prescriptive nonfiction, but it's you. I love you. I knew of her collaborator, Jenny Gorbach. And I was like, yeah, she's really solid. And I was like, let's see what happens. And lo and behold. We got the proposal together, got it on sub, it's sold and it'll be coming out in the spring.

LISA SCHMID

Oh my God, congratulations. I love Kate. So congratulations to both of you. You're a little dynamic duo. Well, it is great. I like the pivot though. I like the pivot.

BETH MCMULLEN

it is great. I like the pivot though. I like the pivot. I like the energy a pivot can bring you. And I do like how you've pointed out that it may not be something that goes the distance, but that in some respects doesn't matter because it might just energize you again. I feel like a lot of the people that we encounter In middle grade, picture book, YA, those spaces are burnt out. You know, they've been working hard and the stuff hasn't gone the way they've wanted. And they're just kind of, they're in that position of trying to remember if they really like writing. Do they want to do this? Are they done? And that's rough.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

That's rough. That's the hardest part because so much of this business is based on luck and timing. I mean, for me, it's really hard. I get, I'm only open to queries one week a month. I usually get about 200 queries. And at this point, lucky for me, you know, I would say a good 95 % of them are all really good. They're things I would be interested in. Their writing's really good. But I can't say yes to everybody. So then it's a question of, well, you know, what's going to happen with this? I mean, I think of everybody who is submitting books during COVID. And it was like terrible because we were doing our best. The editors were doing their best. Books did get sold. But I don't think nearly as many as we would have liked. in terms of projects. And again, you just don't know what's going to be happening in the larger world that's going to change things. And so oftentimes you're faced with three different books. I'm sure editors get this all the time. It's like, wow, all three of these books are great. I have literally one opening on my list. What am I going to do? And that's something I think newer authors don't really think about as opposed to experienced authors. Editors are encouraged, just like agents, to have House authors, people that they work with long -term. And so if you figure an editor has maybe, like if they're in a big house, they might have 15 spots on a list. Well, if seven of them are people that have been writing and continue to write for that season, that only leaves eight for new folks. Okay, that's the answer in half right then. You know, if they've already bought four of those things, and it's toward the end of the year, there's only four more chances. Well, you know, that's a problem.

BETH MCMULLEN

Yeah, there's a numbers game to it that I think people don't appreciate. And sometimes it's like you look at the numbers and you're thinking, okay, this is crazy from the outset. Like, why would I even try to do this?

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

It's kind of funny because I don't really believe in playing the lotteries necessarily. I don't think of myself as a lucky person, but yet I'm like, yes, all these folks are going to sell. All my clients are going to do great. We're going to do this. But I think too, I mean... You have to have faith. You are the advocate for your clients, so you better love it even more than they do. But I do think as authors, sometimes you need some time to say, you know what, I'm just going to do something different for a while. I'm going to engage my brain differently. I think from the agent side, you just want to see that it's still sort of in their wheelhouse. For me, Kate homeschools for children. She's very interested in parenting, obviously, not just as a parent, but also in terms of how children are educated. She strongly believes in play. She participates in an improv troupe. And so I feel like between that and her picture books, you know, her co -author has degrees in early childhood education and was a teacher for pre -K and TK. That, to me, is a great platform for that. Now, if they had come to me and said, you know, we just wrote this cookbook about, you know, fine dining in California, I might have felt a little differently about it. Yeah, tracks. You know, not that I don't think they couldn't do it, but I would be asking a lot harder questions about where is this going to go? Just like if, you know, I suddenly told you as my client, Lisa, you know, now I really need you to write, you know, paranormal monster romance with dark relationships. Oh, I'd love to see that.

BETH MCMULLEN

I'd love to see that.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

I want to go do that. You'd be looking at me like, Leslie, have you read my work?

BETH MCMULLEN

that. You'd be looking

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

And more importantly, where is Leslie and what did you do with her?

LISA SCHMID

Well, it's funny because we've been talking about this and I had emailed you a few days ago and said, you know, I'm kind of going through a middle grade midlife crisis. And so I think we all are. I know. Right. And so I was just and I've been industry wide. It's yeah. So I started two different stories and both of them I thought were really good ideas and got really great feedback after I wrote the first chapter. And then I would just sit there staring at it and I'm like, I just I don't think I have it right now. Like, I don't feel like the voice is there right now. I don't really know what everyone wants. And so I love watching cozy mysteries on BBC. I'm obsessed with them. And I was like, I think I'm going to write a cozy mystery. And it's very, it's a big pivot for me because it's adult fiction. And so switching up, you know, I'm just reading a ton right now trying to figure out the pacing. And I was a little nervous when I told you, but you unfortunately reached out.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

I'm going to write

LISA SCHMID

And with that subject line, cozy mystery. And so it's like, okay, the worlds are aligning for me right now. It's time to make a pivot.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

Because it's also, if we are looking at those pivots, like, I think you're a natural fit for that. I mean, you were already writing middle grade mysteries, which essentially are cozy mysteries just for kids. You know, you read and watch cozy mysteries. It's not like you're like, I am a huge sci -fi fan. All I read is sci -fi. All I write is sci -fi. You know what? I'm going to whip out this cozy mystery. I mean, not that they couldn't. But it would be a little bit more of a turn. It's something that felt natural with your voice. And again, you have these interests. You know that I also watch those a lot, probably almost exclusively. I don't watch a lot of TV. And so it's something that we can continue to work on together that still feels very much on brand. I can pitch you to an adult editor as, this is a middle grade author, but you've already written two mysteries, which is very different from, you know, again, say... somebody writing something nonfiction who suddenly says, I am writing the world's greatest literary novel. Like, okay, you were writing business books for 20 years and now you're going to write this novel? Like, where is this coming from?

BETH MCMULLEN

I said all those same things about the cozy mysteries. Yes. I was like, this is perfect. I need something to read.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

need something to read.

LISA SCHMID

Well, it's funny because Beth was in the Cotswolds and It kind of started with a little text exchange between us. And so then while she was over there, I'm like, you need to take copious notes. Like, I need you everywhere. I did. You are my author. I took lots of notes. Pictures. I'm like, I need it all. Just bring it to me. Well, so.

BETH MCMULLEN

Well, and then I'm actually. At the very end of my trip, we wandered into Bath, right into the Jane Austen festival, which was something I didn't even know existed.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

festival, which

BETH MCMULLEN

I'm agreeing with envy. Blew my mind. Blew my mind. And I thought, if there is a setting designed for a cozy mystery that could beat this, I cannot think of it.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

Well, I hate to admit this, but I am nerdy enough that when my husband gave me a trip to London as, you know, my 50th birthday present, and we was there with my husband and my daughter, and I said, I really want to go to Oxford because I hadn't been. And he looked straight at me and he said, we're going to book a tour. And I said, yes. And he said, it's not going to just be a mystery tour, is it? For Inspector Lewis. And I was like, I mean, it could be. Now we were lucky and we found a wonderful tour guide who actually, it was a lovely general tour of Oxford, but he answered every question and he made sure he pointed out where any mystery that had been filmed or written, like he was letting me know. And that was just wonderful. That is so fun. Yeah,

LISA SCHMID

And that was just

BETH MCMULLEN

that is so fun.

LISA SCHMID

fun. I dragged, I dragged my son, my 14 year old son on that tour.

BETH MCMULLEN

I dragged

LISA SCHMID

It's just cause I, you know, we love that. We love the same thing as far as that. And that's one of my favorite shows. And so when we went to Oxford, I was all over that. It was fun.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

as far

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

Yes. I do expect that my husband is now less interested in touring all the places that I see on all of the BBC mysteries I watch because he's like, somewhere here and you know he's like Sedona Arizona like we haven't watched a mystery set there yet that's no fun I'm boycotting that one already so you have answered a lot of our questions that we had coming up but one of the things that okay oh this is a good question what steps should an author take if they ever suspect that something isn't being handled ethically or transparently in their relationship with an agent

LISA SCHMID

fun I'm boycotting that one already so you have answered a lot of our questions that we had coming up but one of the things that okay oh this is a good question what steps should an author take if they ever suspect that something isn't being handled ethically or transparently in their relationship with an agent

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

Well, the first thing is, and I think this is true in any situation in life, you want to document the situation. If you've been having just phone calls, make sure you're getting things in email. This is one of the reasons why I don't love texting with my authors, because that doesn't document it. If there's an email exchange, both parties have it in writing, what is happening and how that was going. I actually, if I have to chat with my authors in online chat for communication purposes. You know, oftentimes I will save those transcripts because it's just important to know what was said and what was agreed to. As much as you may think your agent knows you're unhappy, they may not actually be aware of the situation. So reach out to them first in writing and say, hey, what is up with this? What is going on here? And ideally they will answer well and thoroughly and it won't be a problem. But if things still feel off, you might want to reach out to some of your agency siblings and say, hey, noticing something's different. Are you noticing something different? And, you know, keep your eyes and your ears open. If you are with an agency where there is more than, say, person, you know, you can escalate to agency management. If it's a significant ethical question, you can actually contact the AALA and file a complaint. Their complaints mostly handle strictly matters of ethics. So unless there's something really wrong, like the agent is not paying you timely, or they are violating your agreement, or they are charging you fees when they shouldn't be, that's something AALA can handle. If it's just my agent is not communicating with me properly, they're probably not going to be able to help in that situation. I think it's always a good idea to review your agency agreement. Go through the highlighter and, you know, say, hey, these are things that were promised and I'm not seeing this happen. Or, you know, again, you can show the emails to the agent and say, we agreed that I was going to go on sub later this year and you didn't tell me that was changing. So why are we not going on sub, as you said? If it really comes to it, you can notify the agent that you're taking action and that if certain things are not improved, you will be terminating with the proper amount of notice. I mean, we've all heard horror stories, and it blows my mind, but we've heard ones of stories where people were signed, they were promised, and nothing was done. And while I can understand everybody has different situations, there may be personal issues we're not aware of, what I can understand is not letting your clients know that there's a rough time happening and that things may not be happening on a particular timeline or in a certain situation. My own father passed at the beginning of this year. I made sure that all y 'all were aware, not so much for the sympathy and support, although that was lovely, but so that you knew if I said we were going out in January on sub, that was not going to be happening. It was going to be in the spring before things were really moving forward.

BETH MCMULLEN

It goes back to your point about open communication. People can't read your mind. So unless you say it, your agent's not going to know what you're thinking. It's going to be muddled unless you say it.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

say it.

BETH MCMULLEN

And that, I mean, that's just, it's important in all relationships, but I think especially in one like this where you're kind of both on the same page. You should be.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

And again, you got to go with your gut. If something seems hinky, it may well be hinky, or it may just be that, you know, the person's distracted or something that's not affiliated with work is really bothering them. But, you know, again, they should at least have an opportunity to say. I'm not in a good space right now, but I fully expect that things will have changed. I'm sorry I didn't communicate more fully. You know, here's where we are with things.

BETH MCMULLEN

where we

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

with things.

BETH MCMULLEN

This is like a good checklist. So hopefully everybody's writing all this stuff down. Yeah.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

Oh, go ahead. Sorry, I would say it's also really important to know that I know everybody's afraid. If I let my agent go, I'll never have another agent. nobody looks at you and says, oh my God, you left your agent or your agent let you go. You must be a terrible writer. No, they say, hmm, that didn't work out for them. That doesn't mean it won't work out for me. I mean, they may ask for sales track and they may ask for other types of questions that they wouldn't ask a debut author. But for me, I always consider that a plus because this person knows something about the business and then it's up to me to make a decision. And talking with them or in what we write to each other to decide that, yes, this will be a good fit or it won't be.

BETH MCMULLEN

And not every relationship is going to be a good fit. I mean, going back to what you said about it, feeling like a marriage, there's a lot to be brought to bear on whether or not you guys mesh as people. You know, even before you get into the next level professional stuff, like, do you get along? Because you're going to spend a lot of time talking about a lot of different things. I think just, yeah, really good to bear all that in mind for all those people out there who are in the trenches looking for that agent. You do have to be, you know, yes, you can be excited when you get an offer, but also be mindful of these things that we're talking about.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

And the reality is, is that just by the nature of the business, many people will have more than one agent over the course of career because. It's not like marriage. You know, I mean, it's a business partnership. And business partnerships change all the time for all sorts of reasons. You know, one of the most common reasons for people to be terminated is because their agent is leaving the business. Nobody is going to hold that against you as an author. It's not your fault.

BETH MCMULLEN

Yeah, or they just decide they're not doing your kind of books anymore. They're not selling graphic novels or middle grade or picture books or whatever. They're just doing a psychological thriller or something. So yeah, there's a lot of details that need to be looked at on both sides. So before we let you go, what is on the top of your manuscript wishlist right now? We know you're only open one week per month. So tell us what you're looking for and then tell all of our listeners. the best way to figure out when they can submit to you? So fortunately for me,

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

for me, Patrick came up from Query Tracker and created Query Manager, which I personally think is a godsend. So if you use, you know, querytracker .net slash capital L little Z Zampetti, that's my Query Manager. And it will tell you if I'm open or not. If I'm not open, I specify the date that I will reopen, or I will tell you when I expect to reopen, and you can revisit again. I have been trying to put a little bit more about what I'm currently looking for because that does change. Right now, I am looking for more nonfiction, particularly for middle grade and YA. I am not looking for educational nonfiction as much as I am narrative nonfiction. I personally absolutely love the author Candy Fleming. I've read so many of her books and I love what she does. And I love that they're about all different topics from, I think it's Lerner and Loeb and, you know, Amelia Earhart and all different things. And I would love to see something like that, you know, land in my inbox. I am always looking for more adult clients to balance my list out, usually romances. It doesn't have to be a rom -com. It can just be a contemporary romance. As Lisa knows, mysteries are always close to my heart. So that'll always be something I'm willing to look at. A little full up on picture books at the moment.

BETH MCMULLEN

All right. That's good to know. All good to know. And I'm sure people are madly writing that down because I would be if I was them. So that wraps up our time. Leslie, thank you so much for coming back again and sharing your experience with us. I love this topic. I think that we have... Definitely addressed some anxiety points for a lot of our listeners. So we are grateful that you joined us today. Oh, thank you. Thank you again for inviting me.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

for inviting me. It was a pleasure. It's always delightful to speak with you both and, you know, hear some of the side, you know, from the other side, we don't always get to hear some of the other stories from the author side.

BETH MCMULLEN

Maybe we'll, we're going to think of another topic and have you as a three -peat. We'll just have to come up with something good, right? We can do that. That would be awesome. I would love a three -peat.

LESLIE ZAMPETTI

All right, listeners, remember.

BETH MCMULLEN

remember. Yeah, seriously. I mean, that would be like, we'd explode the internet that way.

BETH MCMULLEN

All right, listeners, remember you can find out more about Leslie by visiting our podcast notes and the blog at writerswithwrinkles .net. And Lisa and I are back next time with an Ask Beth and Lisa episode. So submit your questions via the podcast notes or use any of our social channels for that. So until then, happy reading, writing, and listening.