What Editors Really Look For, with Alison Romig: First Pages, Comps, and Connecting with Readers

Episode Summary
In this episode of Writers With Wrinkles, Beth and Lisa talk with Alison Romig, Associate Editor at Delacorte Press, about middle grade and YA fiction. Aspiring authors will gain insight into what editors look for in first pages, how to use comps effectively when pitching, and how to navigate the ever-evolving publishing landscape—especially in middle grade.

Guest Bio
Alison Romig is an associate editor at Delacorte Press, where she edits middle grade and young adult fiction. Since joining Delacorte in 2019, she’s worked with New York Times bestselling authors Lindsay Curry and Catherine Quinn, among others. A lifelong fan of horror, she lives in Brooklyn, New York.

Key Discussion Points

• How horror became Alison’s lifelong reading passion—and why the genre is having a major moment
• What makes a first line or first page irresistible to editors
• The hidden power of accurate comps in query letters and what they reveal about your audience
• Common mistakes in submissions (and why most novels start in the wrong place)
• Balancing multiple POVs and keeping the story cohesive
• The editor–author relationship: collaboration vs. prescription in editorial feedback
• How sales track and market “weirdness” factor into acquisitions—especially for middle grade authors
• Alison’s top wishlist item: horror romance, from chilling to cozy

Conclusion

This episode reminds writers that a strong editorial partnership is built on trust, open communication, and shared creative vision. Whether you’re writing middle grade, YA, or exploring new genres, Alison’s insights demystify the submission process and empower authors to craft stories that truly connect with readers—and maybe even give them a good scare.

Crew Collective
A podcast about the wild, weird, and deeply human side of cosmic storytelling.

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Chapters

• 14:14 [Ad] Crew Collective
• 15:04 (Cont.) What Editors Really Look For, with Alison Romig: First Pages, Comps, and Connecting with Readers

Transcript

BETH MCMULLEN

Hi, friends. I'm Beth McMullen. And I'm Lisa Schmidt. And we're the co -hosts of Writers with Wrinkles. This is season four, episode 24. And today we're excited to welcome editor Alison Rummig to the show. Alison is an associate editor at Delacorte Press, where she edits middle grade and young adult fiction. She's a big fan of genre fiction from the scary to the swoon and can often be heard saying horror novels made her a reader. Since joining Delacorte in 2019, Her list has grown to include New York Times bestselling authors Lindsay Curry and Catherine Quinn, as well as many others. She lives in Brooklyn, New York. Welcome, Allison. Thanks for being here. We are very excited to talk to you today. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. I was thinking when I read that line in your bio about genre fiction being sort of like your gateway drug. That was like Stephen King for me when I was in like seventh grade.

ALISON ROMIG

Oh, yeah. I read Stephen King way too young. I think I read everything way too young. But I, you know, I felt like the horror stuff was so it was such an experience, which I think a lot of kids need when they're just getting into their their reading habits is like. You know, it's such a social thing, horror novels, because you read something really scary or exciting and then you want to tell your friend and then you want to like do a dramatic reenactment of it or something. And so it was such a way to both, you know, feed my my kind of own personal reading habit, but then also bring it to my friends like an offering and be like, oh, let me tell you this story that I really stuck with me.

BETH MCMULLEN

I felt like it was physical, too. It had this physical component where your heart would start to beat and maybe you got a little anxiety and maybe your palms were getting sweaty. And it was it was really, like you said, a unique experience, which, you know, when you're first starting to get into grown up novels, you don't know what's coming. So, yeah, that was really do you still read horror now?

ALISON ROMIG

you still read horror now? Oh, yeah. I'm still a huge horror reader, and I edit a lot of horror novels, both middle grade and young adult. It's just my passion projects. I just love horror, and I feel like it doesn't get as much kudos as it deserves. I just feel like people kind of roll their eyes at horror, or they used to. I feel like it's slowly changing. For me, it's never it's never changed. It's it's been a staple of my bookshelf.

LISA SCHMID

It's like we're really having its moment right now.

ALISON ROMIG

really having

ALISON ROMIG

Yes, it is. It's it's we're in the horror boom.

ALISON ROMIG

I don't know. I mean, I guess we're all just looking for some some other type of scary thing to. Aside from our regular life,

BETH MCMULLEN

right? The regular world is pretty scary. So I'm going to go over and read something that may be scary or just give me some perspective.

ALISON ROMIG

Exactly. Perspective and control. Because when the world is scary, you're out of control in that world. But when a book is scary, it's like, okay, I'm going to close this now. I'm going to be done for the night. I'm going to pick it up later. You know, it's like, oh, suddenly I can kind of harness that anxiety in a way I can't in the real world.

BETH MCMULLEN

So true. I read a ton of genre fiction, you know, thrillers and psychological thrillers and mysteries and all that stuff. I love it. And I've noticed that horror elements are creeping into other things, like other genres that in the past you may have seen it once in a while. but not a lot, which I find really interesting, right? That it's kind of in the zeitgeist, I guess.

ALISON ROMIG

Yeah, I'm seeing a lot of horror crop up in fantasy. And you know, something that we talk about a lot on our team at Delacorte is horror romance. We're trying to make like horror romance work, but then you kind of stumble over it. It's not as catchy as romanticy, unfortunately. But yeah, we're seeing horror romance becoming a huge thing. Yes, it's cropping up everywhere. You can't get away from it.

BETH MCMULLEN

Okay, that's why I saw, I was in Powell Books in Portland in July, and they have a whole section that was vampire horror romance. And I was like, wait, I guess this is a thing. I mean, but it was literally an entire set of shelves. There were a lot of books. I was impressed. It's taking off.

ALISON ROMIG

off. Yeah.

BETH MCMULLEN

Well, it'll keep us busy and distracted. So that's the most that we can ask for, right? Exactly. All right. We have some good questions keyed up for you here today that we're going to jump into now. Awesome.

LISA SCHMID

Right. So we've been doing, we have a new segment on. the podcast, which is first pages, people are sending in their first pages to us. And we're kind of going through and critiquing and saying, you know, this, you know, making little suggestions. So with that in mind, how important are first pages to you?

ALISON ROMIG

Oh, so important. And not just first pages, I kind of have this affinity for really good first lines. Like, obviously, it's not a maker, it's not a deal breaker. But I was, you know, raised in an environment where my mom would take me to the bookstore and we'd pick up, pick off, you know, books from the shelf and we would just read first lines back and forth to each other. And it was always really exciting. We'd come up to each other. We'd be like, I have a really good first line or like, you know, or like I have the better first line, something like that. So it was kind of a game, but it really stuck with me that like that, you know. That was really fun. And so now I kind of like play that game with myself in my head when I'm reading a new submission or something like, what is this first line? Where does it take me? What does it make me think? And to even go beyond that, I sometimes will read the first line and then the last line of a book. Before I read the book and most of the time that doesn't actually spoil anything for me because the last line is usually pretty short and it doesn't really say what every what's happened before. But both of those things I feel like need to kind of like punch you to like to make you want to know what's sandwiched in between. So, yeah, I would say first pages are huge, both to me as an editor and to me as a reader, but specifically as an editor. I mean, when you just think about the vast amount of stuff that editors have to read and the time we have in a day, like, you really do need to be sucked in by those first pages or at least feel curious about what's coming next. Even if it's, you know, a lot of first -time writers especially, they kind of hit their stride mid -novel before it's been edited. where you can really feel that they've fallen into the story so it's not even just about oh the first pages need to be completely polished and perfect but it's more like do these pages make me need to know what is coming next I think when and I used to I've done this before it's I feel like sometimes in that first chapter the author's really working the story out and most of the times it like starts in the second chapter and

LISA SCHMID

think when and I used to I've done this before it's I feel like sometimes in that first chapter the author's really working the story out and most of the times it like starts in the second chapter and I don't know if you've noticed that before, like with first time writers where you're just like all of a sudden you're like, OK, the story really starts here. And that's where you need to punch it up.

ALISON ROMIG

Oh, yeah. I mean, I feel like one of the most common editorial notes I give is like highlighting a section that's like maybe sometimes 10 pages in, maybe sometimes 25 pages in and being like, this is this is the start of your novel. Just cut everything else and start here. Because some of that stuff is really just a warm up. It's like it's like an athlete warming up before the race. We don't all need to see the warm up for us to enjoy the race. It's important to have it, but we don't necessarily need it in order for the race to be complete.

BETH MCMULLEN

I think, too, for first time writers that. you're trying to find your voice, right? And it doesn't, sometimes it doesn't show up until halfway through. I worked with a guy who was writing a horror novel, which I like a lot and hope to see on the shelf someday. And it was halfway through and suddenly it really started to hum. Like you could really, and I said, okay, now you have to go back to the beginning and rewrite the first half so that it sounds like you, like you figured it out now. Now you have the voice. Now you got to redo all this stuff that doesn't sound like the voice. So it all matches. Yeah, it's super interesting what you what comes up as you go along. Kind of leading into this question about common mistakes and weak points that you see in submissions starting in the wrong place. Do there tend to be trends, things that you see repeatedly in multiple submissions other than like, OK, you should this book should start on chapter five. What are the things that kind of that writers should at least keep in the back of their head as like, OK, hopefully I'm not doing these things.

ALISON ROMIG

It's a very interesting question. I feel like the thing that I encounter the most is I see a lot of people kind of leaning into multiple POV, which I think when done well is truly amazing. But there are some times where I'll read a book or a submission and it's multiple POV. And to me, I'm just like. this is the character I want to stay with. And I almost feel like I'm being torn away or like cheated in some way when I have to leave this character. And so I feel like multi POV is great, but it is kind of like something that I think some people will put in because there has been a trend of like, ooh, especially with mysteries and thrillers, it's like, ooh, adding all of these layers makes it more complicated. But sometimes I'm like the complication. isn't there isn't serving you and focusing more in on this one character would actually serve the overall narrative because this character is the one with something to say so that's a that's an issue that i see in a lot of submissions where i really just feel like if you rewrote this and you focused on this person you would have a much stronger more satisfying narrative rather than bopping around when that doesn't necessarily serve the story

BETH MCMULLEN

It sometimes feels like writers have a favorite child, right? They have this one voice that they really are tuned into and it feels comfortable for them to write and they enjoy writing it. And then they're doing this multi POV thing. So they've added in somebody else or other additional other characters. But those don't feel quite so, you know, precious to them. So they feel sort of undeveloped. And then I've had that experience a lot. Some of the genres where I read where I'm like, I'm just skipping through this other person because I don't there's nothing there for me. I know this writer is just kind of half assing this character, not on purpose, but it's just where they're at. And, you know, sometimes I miss important details, but that's on me. But it's interesting.

ALISON ROMIG

Yeah. And that's not to say that I don't like multi POV novels. I really do. When done well, they can be extraordinary. incredibly well -crafted. It's just something that I've seen a couple of times where I'm like, why did you choose to make this multi -POV? Because something isn't feeling cohesive.

BETH MCMULLEN

Yeah, my daughter's 18 and she just read Gone Girl for the first time. And she called me and she was like, oh, my God. And I was like, I know I want to go back and read it for the first time. I was so jealous. Like as a reader, I was like, I want that experience again. But again, like when it's done well, it can be mind blowing.

ALISON ROMIG

I still remember where I was when I read that book the first time. Actually, I got it for Christmas when I was in college, maybe or maybe I was still in high school. And I. sat down like after i opened it i remember sitting i was in a green chair by the fire and i like just read it all all and my mom was so mad because she was like this you should be you know right and i'm like sitting there that time with your family you're like go away i am busy yeah yeah that was that was like a mind -blowing read i think most people had that same experience where they were like what just happened

BETH MCMULLEN

time with your family you're like go away i am busy yeah yeah that was that was like a mind -blowing read i think most people had that same experience where they were like what just happened And it holds up because here's my kid at 18, you know, still doing it.

LISA SCHMID

So I'm going to jump into the next question. And this is one thing that we get all the time. People are always like, when do we know it's ready? When do we know when our work is ready? Like none of us, I don't think any writer ever feels like it's done. But at some point, you need to let it go. So what's the one thing you wish all writers knew before submitting their work?

ALISON ROMIG

Honestly, when I got when I looked at this question, originally, I didn't the advice I have for this actually isn't about the work itself, because I do feel like it's so hard to tell someone when to let their baby go, basically. Something that I actually would love writers to think really carefully about before they submit their work is the comps they use in the pitch. Actually, I feel like people don't realize how much weight is put on those. Not because it's like, oh, if you use these huge comps, you'll get more interest. Actually, that's the opposite. Sometimes when you use sky high comps, it's like, You can kind of lose an editor a little bit because it's like, well, yeah, everyone wants that book to be what they've written. I mean, sometimes it is, but it's more like the accuracy of the comps is really important. Not so much that you're using these big name comps, but that they really feel true to the work. And the reason that. I know my team and myself really look at those carefully is because when you have an author or a writer who really knows the reader they are trying to reach their hand out to, that is a really good sign to us because that's one of the things that I was taught when I first started acquiring manuscripts that my mentor, Wendy Loja, told me. She was like, the number one thing that I look for when I'm looking at a submission is who is the reader for this? And when your idea of who the reader is matches up with the author, then you really know that you're on the same page. I just feel like it's a really simple way for us to feel that we've really connected to this work, but it's often so overlooked by people when they're like writing their pitches. I feel like people often go for like, go for that really well -known book or that really famous author. And that's not as important to us. What's important to us is that, is it the right match? Is it accurate? Does it make sense? And I think that that is really important to know before you take your work and reach out is that you kind of understand how you're positioning it. And I know that wasn't quite how the question was phrased just now. But I do feel like that is something I wanted to shout out for anyone listening because it really does go a long way.

BETH MCMULLEN

It's interesting what you said about being able to identify your readers via the comp. So it's not, yes, you have to be paying attention to sort of how this book aligns with your genre and your plot and your characters and blah, blah, blah. But who's reading this book? So you're also... looking at it from kind of two different perspectives, which I think most people probably don't think about. I am literally thinking about that for the first time right now. So like, how can you see what's the buzz about this book that you might use as a comp? Who is talking about it? Who is reading it? I think that's actually really a helpful angle to keep in mind when you're looking for those comps.

ALISON ROMIG

Yeah. I'm going to do that next time. No, I think like keeping the reader in mind, At the forefront of your mind, when you're pitching especially, I think is really paramount because, yes, you can keep, you know, your character in mind or your plot in mind. But I think what we really want to do as editors is connect a story to a reader. It helps us kind of bridge that connection, which is really important to us, obviously. So I think keeping not just your story in mind when pitching it, but like, who is this story for, is truly, is kind of going that next step to get an editor's attention.

BETH MCMULLEN

It's a... challenge for a lot of writers too when I work with writers one of the questions I say is who is this for who are you writing this for assuming that you want someone to read it beyond your you know immediate family and a lot of times they can't answer and that's like a big gap in the process I mean you have to you don't have to know exactly but you have to have an idea of who is going to be on the other end of this book it's you know it's how you get to write another book

ALISON ROMIG

And it's not easy. I mean, because for so long when you're a writer, the only person on the other end of the book is yourself. And, you know, a lot of the time, you know, writing can be such an insular activity and really you have to be writing for yourself first or else you'll never get through the drafting process. Right. You have to have that connection to your work first and foremost. So it's asking a writer to think. like think a little bit differently. And I, you know, I'm fully aware of that. It's, it's, it's asking, you know, a writer to maybe, maybe think more like an author, but, and I don't want to say that it's easy,

ALISON ROMIG

I don't want to say that it's easy, but I do think it's really important to connect, to connect with that, like that next person who's then going to connect to the next person.

BETH MCMULLEN

Yeah, it's definitely hard. And I think it brings up a lot of stuff, right? Because suddenly it's not just your eyes on it. It's all these other people. And who are those other people going to be? And then, you know, your average author just has a panic attack about ID.

BETH MCMULLEN

So in your experience with all of your stable of all the writers in your stable, what is a piece of editorial advice that you've heard or that you've given or something that has stuck with you? over the years that has been helpful to those on the receiving end?

ALISON ROMIG

Yeah, it's a great question. I think the advice that I've been given that I go back to all the time when I'm writing my edit letters, when I'm talking to authors, when I'm having those calls, is that I never want my approach to editing to be prescriptive. I never want to tell an author what to do. obviously I will give suggestions. This is how you might approach this, et cetera. But I never want an author to feel like I'm taking their work and then saying this, that you have to do this, this, this, and this, and then we'll publish it. I find my job is to be someone who is pointing out where I am experiencing friction in the reading experience or on the page or something isn't clear to me. And I'm... experiencing a friction in my reading experience that I have been pointing out to the author. And I'm saying you can tackle this in whatever way you feel works best for your story, but it needs to be tackled. It needs to be looked at, but I'm not going to tell you exactly what to do to fix it. I find that if I... do that and i have you know when i first started editing i feel like my letters were much more like and then this is how the entire second half is going to be restructured and blah blah blah and you know and this is what you need to do to fix it it was almost like a frenetic energy it was like i just like i just want to make sure that everything that is happening in my head as i'm reading it is being expressed to you but i think as i've matured as an editor i'm like well maybe they don't need to know everything that's happening in my head as i'm reading and maybe that'll just confuse the process even more Especially if I give a kind of prescriptive direction and it doesn't feel like it speaks to them, then it's like, well, how do you expect an author to give their best work literally like fighting against their instincts? That's never going to yield a good result. So, yeah, I would just say my best. piece of advice that I was given was don't go in and rewrite things. Don't, you know, have your letter be like, do this, this, this, and this. It's more like, here's a tension I'm experiencing in my reading experience and how can we address it? And what might this spark for you? If I'm bringing this up as a potential issue on the page, what does that spark for you? And then if they ask, if they're like, I don't really know what to do, do you have any suggestions to get the ball rolling? I will obviously be more than happy to provide those. But I just never want the editorial process to feel like anything less than a conversation, especially because so much of writing is so you're in your little silo, you're in your own space. And I've had so many authors tell me that the editorial process is fun for them. Because it's more of a conversation and it's more generative in that way. And so I feel like if I were to just tell them what to do, that would absolutely take all of the fun out of this process. And this can be a really fun process to get to work with another creative to build out your story even more and to have someone else be as excited about your story as you are. And you kind of lose some of that energy, that generative energy when you're just going. okay, do this and this, and then, you know, we'll be done. You're losing what could be really special about the editorial partnership.

BETH MCMULLEN

You also, I think when you're telling an author, this is what you should do, you end up with them being a little bit defensive, right? Because they want to, they want to, even if they can see the point, they may want to just be like, no. But I worked with Alison Hellaret. Aladdin on a bunch of middle grade books and she was excellent at laying the groundwork so I had to think about things like putting stuff out there just as you said this is where you're losing me a little bit this is where you know these things that then I had just this this list of areas where I could kind of go back in and think about what she said but she never was like and do this to fix it it was all very kind of leading me to the water but being like now you drink on your own that's your job my job is to get you there now you and it was a wonderful partnership i mean i i felt like i really got the benefit of that type of excellent editing so i mean i'm sure that your authors would say that too it's a great space to work in when you feel like you're given You're given control, but you're given support at the same time. And you're given some direction. So you're not wandering in the woods, like feeling like you're blind.

ALISON ROMIG

Absolutely. I think that's a great way to put it is you want to give them direction, but you don't want to control them.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

ALISON ROMIG

It's a fine line sometimes, but it's an important line. And I think it yields much better art in the end.

BETH MCMULLEN

Yeah, absolutely. And everybody's excited about it. You still feel really vested in the end product, which is good for everybody.

LISA SCHMID

So we are going to jump from the fun editorial part to the not so fun business part. This is where the horror episode, this is where the show shifts into the horror genre. So everyone, you know, grab a blankie. And a stuffed animal, and try not to rock in the corner as we approach this next difficult subject, there is an article that everybody is reading right now about how important sales track is and how it can be the death of an author. So I think kind of hearing it from firsthand, like how important is it to you? Do you take anything into consideration? You know, give us the lowdown on that.

ALISON ROMIG

All right, so... That doesn't feel good already.

LISA SCHMID

doesn't feel good already.

ALISON ROMIG

No, no, no. I have a very specific answer to this question. I will quickly and concisely say that we do, as editors, look at sales track. I mean, I'm not going to deny that. It is... one of the factors that we take into account when we are acquiring or potentially acquiring a project. What I will say as a caveat is that the sales track to me takes a heavier weight if an author is coming to me with the same kind of book that they've written in the past. that has had maybe a potentially not as great sales track. Because then what you're essentially asking me and my team to do is to do something differently with the same material. And that's a harder ask. It's harder to imagine what we could do differently from another team that would yield a different result. It matters a little bit less if an author is coming to me and they're attempting a change, right? In that way, I feel like I actually look at the sales track a lot less. Say an author has always written YA contemporary and the sales track isn't so great and they're coming to me and they're really excited to start a horror career or a romance career. And they kind of want to shift into a new focus. To me, that almost feels like a fresh start. I'm a lot less intimidated by a sales track if I have this kind of, OK, like we're doing something completely new and we're putting you out there in a completely new way. Then sales track is is something that suddenly becomes. less weighted. So while sales track does matter, and I'm not going to pretend that it doesn't, I don't think it's the whole story. And I don't think that it's, you know, I don't think that that means that that author doesn't have a way forward in publishing. I just think that maybe it'll take a little bit of rethinking in terms of direction.

LISA SCHMID

So with that in mind, I know that there's a lot of times that, and we've had other editors that have come on that have have talked about how there are lead titles that get more attention and get more focus than maybe, say, another title. And do you take that into consideration at all? Is that this title may, you know, a title may have not gotten the same, not received the same marketing attention, didn't get put on lists, didn't get, you know, reviews, didn't get that same kind of loving care than another book that gets released at the same time does. Like, does that factor into your decision making? Can you look at that? Is that something that you guys ever take a deep dive into? Or do you just look at the sales track and go, OK, that's that is what it is?

ALISON ROMIG

It's interesting because I've never thought I've thought about that before. I don't know if we always have that information at our disposal. Like if it was a different house who acquired. the last books and then they're coming to us with their next project, they can tell us what they know about the marketing plan that they had and the kind of attention that they had. But we're not really privy to exactly what kind of attention that book was given at a different house, if that makes sense. So to some extent, we can kind of like interrogate that by talking to the agent. and kind of like asking what the author's experience was like at their previous home which we often do ask but I don't think that it really yields like that exact information of like well at the last house this was a lead and this was exactly what they got and or at the last house they had no marketing plan like I don't know if an agent would really want to share that information so it becomes a little bit of like what kind of What can I piece together with what I do have, if that makes sense? It does.

LISA SCHMID

And then I have one more question about this. In regards to middle grade, because you acquire middle grade and it being such a slow time for middle grade, it's such a funky time. And say there's a middle grade author whose sales didn't do that great, but it's kind of more reflective of maybe the market. Do you take that into consideration?

ALISON ROMIG

Oh, yeah. I mean, middle grade is its own. Beast. I feel like, you know, I do a good amount of middle grade and I would say my middle grade projects are often passion projects. They're projects that really speak to me because because of how the market is, they have they it's just a different experience. And I think. That's another subset where I would say the genre that the author is writing in becomes really important. Because middle grade is what it is right now, at least, and I will say as an editor, I've been an editor now for about seven years. I feel like for the entirety of my career, middle grade has been in a weird space. So I don't really know anything else, to be honest. I mean, I know what I know from. my own childhood and the books that spoke to me and the things that felt really big back then. But as an editor, I've existed in this middle grade marketplace that has been, yeah, in a hard place for almost my entire career or my entire career. So I feel like I maybe have a different outlook on it, but I definitely lean into genre in middle grade. And I do feel like if an author comes to me and they've done a lot of contemporary middle grade and the sales track just isn't there, but they're an amazing writer. It's like, how can we get these ideas across that you want to get across, but maybe make them a little bit more accessible to what a kid is looking for right now? So I really look for middle grade novels that speak to what middle schoolers. and younger kids are dealing with, but do it in a way that feels really exciting to the kid reader. So I have a project that I'm actually, I was reading right before I came on today where it's a book that's very much about identity and coming of age and book banning and the importance of libraries and all of that stuff. But it's on its surface, it's about mermaids and dragons. That's the kind of book that I'm like looking for in middle grade where it's like, yes, like it still touches on all these really important educational and empathetic topics, but it does so through fairy tales and fantasy. But to go back to your original question, I think if the author is someone who has a really special voice and who has received all these, you know, awards and. you know, beautiful reviews and you're looking at a sales track that doesn't seem to reflect that. I definitely think that that then becomes a question for me of, OK, where can we kind of position you to give you new life, to give you another chance?

BETH MCMULLEN

This is all very interesting. And I know this question comes up all the time amongst the writers that we talk to. And obviously, book publishing is a business, so your sales track does matter, but it is nuanced. So I think that's important for people to keep in mind. I am telling you, I wrote a handful of adult books and then I started writing middle grade. And from the very first second that I entered into the middle grade universe, everyone was like, it's in a weird place. So I feel like maybe the weird place is just normal. Like it's always going to be in a weird place. And because I just accepted, OK, well, this is where it is. I don't know any different. It kind of went through different, you know, over the course of, I think I published seven middle grade books. It was like all kind of like, it's weird today in this way and tomorrow it's going to be weird in this way. And I think you just kind of roll with it. We're always pronouncing genres dead and then they magically resurrect and like romance has been dead a hundred times. So I don't know. You kind of just write what you feel good about, I guess.

ALISON ROMIG

Yeah, I would say write what you feel good about because some of the advice I've been given is edit what you feel good about. Everything is cyclical. It'll never be a bad thing to have something on your list. It'll come back and then you can pull it from the backlist. It's not, you know, if you feel really strongly about something, go for it. Yeah, I do feel like I have heard from the beginning of my career. people caveat middle grade pitches with, I know middle grade is in this weird place right now. And I'm like, I feel like we can just take that out at this point. Like we exist, it exists how it exists. And, you know, maybe without that caveat, we wouldn't, it wouldn't be so kind of mind all the time.

BETH MCMULLEN

Yeah, I think so. It's like what we, it's like our little enchantment, our little spell that we say before we even talk about it. It's weird. But blah, blah, blah. It's so funny. I think about that sometimes because I literally just got an email from a writer this morning who was like, middle grade's in a weird place, so I don't know what to do about this book. And I was like, that's just, you know, I get it. It's OK. Well, you'll be fine. I'll be fine.

ALISON ROMIG

I was just going to say not to like diagnose the weirdness, but I feel like partly. You know, so much of our publishing industry in recent years has been informed by like online conversation. And it's just harder to have online conversation about middle grade because the readers are younger and rightfully should not be online in the same way. And so it just becomes a question of how do we get creative and reach these readers the way we've gotten creative and reaching teens. which I do think has ever evolving and has evolved a lot over the last few years. And to a lot of my colleagues, you know,

ALISON ROMIG

what's the word I'm looking for? Sorry, my sick brain is. But to cheer them on, they've got their credit. To their credit, they've gotten really creative in how to reach that teen. So I think it's just a little bit more of a... How do we reach someone who's not necessarily in this social media sphere without encouraging them to become a part of the social media sphere, which I don't think we want to do with young kids?

BETH MCMULLEN

Yeah, I mean, that's the eternal conundrum about middle grade is that you can't really talk to your reader. So how do you get around it? It's interesting. We have one more fun question for you. We're going to leave the horror show. Because it's not that horrible. I think everything you said will actually be quite a comfort to many of our listeners. What is at the top of your manuscript wish list? What are you just excited to get?

ALISON ROMIG

Well, let's go back to the top and bring it up again and let it roll off my tongue again. Horror romance. I'm really looking for those types of projects in YA right now. Even if it's like cozy horror romance, like I think even that space. But yeah, a little touch of scary, a little touch of swoony. As I said, as you said, with my bio at the top, I said it was a spectrum from scary to swoony. But I actually think the two, the two can shake hands and meet in the middle. And I would love to see more of that. I've received some great projects in that space, but I haven't found the one yet to really like take on. And and become the editor of. So more projects in that space, please send them my way. It's at the top. All right,

BETH MCMULLEN

right, everybody, you heard it here first. Horror romance. Come on, we can do this. Somebody out there has just had a moment where they thought themselves, oh, yeah, this is me. So that wraps up our time. So thank you so much, Allison, for being here. This was actually really fun and super informative. And I love when we have a show where I actually come away being like, oh, I learned like four things. That's amazing. So thank you again for putting aside the time and joining us today.

ALISON ROMIG

Thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun. And I hope I didn't scare any of your listeners. Halloween is over. We're in a different phase now. If you get any unscared listeners, you can direct them to me and I'll personally apologize.

BETH MCMULLEN

I hope they will be fine. I think they will be fine. If not, you know, we'll regroup and deal with that. So listeners, remember, you can find out more about Allison by visiting our podcast notes and the blog at writerswithwrinkles .net. And a quick reminder, Lisa and I will have more first page feedback for you in our next scheduled episode. So if you want to send in pages for on -show feedback, please visit the website for instructions. We also have a lot of fun bonus content coming up in the next couple of months. So be on the lookout for that as well. And until next time, happy reading, writing, and listening.