What Literary Agents Look for in Kidlit Submissions, with Erin Casey Westin

Note: For the most up-to-date information on Erin’s submission status, interests, and availability, visit https://erincaseywestin.com.

Episode Summary

In this episode of Writers With Wrinkles, Beth McMullen and Lisa Schmid talk with Erin Casey Westin, associate agent at Galt & Zacker Literary Agency, about the current kidlit market and how agents evaluate queries and manuscripts. Aspiring authors will gain insight into writing stronger query letters, understanding agent decision-making, and knowing when a manuscript is truly ready to submit.

Guest Bio

Erin Casey Westin is an associate agent at Galt & Zacker Literary Agency, where she represents children’s literature. She is especially drawn to projects with strong voice, vivid worldbuilding, and authentic, thoughtful representation. Erin is passionate about stories that allow every child to see themselves reflected on the page. She is based in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

Key Discussion Points

• The state of the kidlit market
  Erin shares what she’s hearing from editors, including cautious optimism around middle grade and continued demand for humorous, character-driven picture books.
• How sales track records affect authors
  Why prior sales aren’t everything, how agents strategize around them, and when switching publishing houses can make sense.
• What makes a query letter stand out
  Clear, specific stakes; strong voice; and careful attention to submission guidelines—plus why vague, high-level stakes often fall flat.
• Common query mistakes to avoid
  Writing queries in first person as the character, misquoting agents, careless personalization, and over-reliance on AI-generated text.
• How Erin evaluates manuscripts
  The step-by-step mental checklist: polish, voice, character connection, plot and pacing, and whether the story sustains momentum beyond the opening pages.
• When a manuscript isn’t ready yet
  Why rushing to query out of frustration can hurt your chances, and when putting a book away for a few months can actually help.
• What Erin wants to see more of
  Middle grade and YA survival stories—especially fresh, modern takes featuring underrepresented protagonists.

Conclusion

This episode reminds writers that strong queries and manuscripts are built on clarity, specificity, and patience. Erin Casey Westin offers a transparent look at how agents read, evaluate, and decide—helping authors approach querying with more confidence and intention.

Links & Resources

• Erin Casey Westin: https://erincaseywestin.com
• Galt & Zacker Literary Agency: https://www.galltzacker.com/
• QueryTracker: https://querytracker.net

🎧 Subscribe & Connect

Don’t miss future episodes! Subscribe, rate, and review Writers With Wrinkles wherever you listen. Submit questions for “Ask Beth and Lisa” at writerswithwrinkles.net, or connect with us on Instagram @writerswithwrinkles.

Transcript

Erin Casey Westin Transcript

Beth McMullen: Hi friends, I'm Beth McMullen.

Lisa Schmid: And I'm Lisa Schmidt!

Beth McMullen: And we're the co-hosts of Writers with Wrinkles. This is Season , Episode , and today we're excited to welcome Erin Casey Weston to the show. Erin is an associate agent at Galt and Zachar Literary Agency, representing all things kid-lit.  

Beth McMullen: She's particularly drawn to work that shows the author's world and character-building ability, and wants to see authentic, thoughtful representations of all people so that every kid can find a book that speaks to them.

Beth McMullen: She now lives in Minneapolis, Minnesota, but will always be a Jersey girl at heart. Welcome, Erin, thanks for being here. We are very excited to talk to you today.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Thank you so much for having me! I'm excited to be here.

Beth McMullen: I know a lot of Jersey girls, so a lot of my good friends from college are Jersey girls, so, you know, just a big shout out to that crew.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): It's so important. You know, the minute you leave the state, like, I was… I was pretty pro-Jersey while I was there, but you leave and suddenly you're like.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): I love New Jersey! Like, just this absurd loyalty takes over, just bringing up.

Beth McMullen: Right. Springsteen every chance I can.

Beth McMullen: Right, and you're like, nobody insults New Jersey. Like, I can insult it because it belongs to me, but you? No way. We'll get into it if you go there. That is so funny, I love it.

Lisa Schmid: So, I, found you through my wonderful agent, Leslie Sampetti. Now, how do you know… were you guys at a conference or something? Like, how did you… how did you meet Leslie?

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Yeah, I don't remember when Leslie and I first met. We've definitely been at, like, random events together over a couple of years, but we're both members of the AALA, and she was the secretary, she's ending her term, we're very sad. And I had recently joined my… a committee for the first time, so I was just kind of running into her more in the AALA circles.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): But then there was the People of Publishing Conference, which happened in September, which was aimed particularly at agents, but also editors attended, and

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): other folks who were there to basically do professional development for agents, and Leslie was there, and so we got to chat and catch up and talk over snacks and such, and it was very lovely to actually see her in person for the first time in a long time.

Lisa Schmid: Was she dressed all sassy? Because she is, like, a fashion plate when she's, like, out and about.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Oh, I don't remember what she was wearing, but…

Lisa Schmid: I just met.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): sassy.

Lisa Schmid: It was. I met her in person at ALA in San Diego, and she came walking up, and I'm like, dang, look at you! She's just, like, she's dialed in, she's a little fashion plate, so…

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): We miss this over Zoom, you know? I don't get to see everyone's fun fashion when we're all just in our pajamas, you know?

Lisa Schmid: Wow.

Lisa Schmid: Yeah.

Beth McMullen: Neil, this is just kind of a thought about how, when you go to these agent-focused… do you feel like you're seeing the same people? Is it the same cohort that kind of attends this stuff? I'm just… I'm curious about whether or not the agent world feels like it's small, and you kind of know everybody, or does it feel like it's a big place and, like, there are little pockets of people that you know, but… because I know that there… it feels like there has suddenly been

Beth McMullen: And an explosion of people calling themselves agents?

Beth McMullen: So I'm just kind of curious, you know, I know we could have another show about that, but I'm just curious what, like, the feel is for you when you're in these situations.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Yeah, this was actually the first People of Publishing conference that, AALA put on. They've had events previously and, like, paired up with, like, ALA and Book Expo and things, but I hadn't attended any of those, so this was my first time getting together in, like, an agent-focused

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): capacity. So at conferences, like, sometimes I'll bump into people I know, but I feel like, honestly, since the pandemic, I've tried a lot harder to make

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): connections with my peers in aging, and not just making connections with, editors, and then obviously with creatives. And that's really helped to

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): build out my network in a peer-to-peer way that, like, we can all learn from each other, because we're all just in our bubbles a lot of the time. So at the People of Publishing Conference, there was actually, like, a lot of people who I had never met in person, but had been chatting with on Slack or whatever for a long time, so that was really, really cool. But there were also, you know, far more people that I had never met, or, like, recognized their name on a name tag.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): they sell really good books, I should go talk to them. Yeah, there's… there's so many agents. Oh my gosh, I don't think I will ever meet all of them and feel like it's a small world.

Beth McMullen: Right, interesting, very interesting.

Lisa Schmid: So, now that we've touched on the wonderful world of agents, because you are appreciated, we would be nothing without you. You're the wind beneath our wings.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): We would be… we would have no jobs if you did not exist. We're just here to shepherd you along.

Lisa Schmid: Take that. Anyway, so we're just gonna throw you right into the fire with the first question, because this is so easy, and…

Lisa Schmid: Like, nobody's gonna be hanging on your every word, so no pressure. What is your take on the  kid-lit market? Like, what do you think's happening? I know that middle grade has been in this, like, it's been… you know what's been in? It's been in a horrible fog.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Yes.

Lisa Schmid: For, like, the last year, it just is… I'm… we're looking for rays of life, but we're also looking for some truth bombs.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Yeah, so middle grade was the first thing I thought of, in that people are bringing it up again. Like, editors are like.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): you know, like, we're starting to, like, turn the corner on middle grade, or, like, we want to see more middle grade, and that… oh my gosh, I'm so glad to hear it, because it was wild that it was just like.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): No, no to this whole age group? What? What are those

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): kids get a read! So I'm hearing good things, it feels like, about middle grade. I don't know that that will turn around and it'll be, you know, the next big thing, but hopefully things are flattening out and more editors will be open to it, and Barnes & Noble will put it on shelves like they should.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): And then I also think just, like, the humorous, character-driven picture book is, you know, constantly of interest, but it seems to come up constantly in my conversations with editors, like, everyone wants the next

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Pigeon, or Mother Bruce, or, you know, whatever it is. We would all… wouldn't we all love to have that story? But I think that that is something that editors are consistently asking for and hoping they can find the next big thing to create a series around. So those are things that I am particularly

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): hoping I will have more luck with in .

Lisa Schmid: What do you think about, and this is kind of, going off-topic just a little bit, but the whole, and I… the whole sales track.

Lisa Schmid: conversation that's been going on out there with the gambling, you know, I'm sure you read the article, you might have seen the article about how important sales track numbers are. How do you tackle that, like, in regards to the kid-lit market, and knowing that, like, say, a middle grade author, their sales numbers weren't good, but they…

Lisa Schmid: you know, or their picture book numbers weren't good on the last one, but they've got a new book that's out on submission. How is that something that's weighing on the front of your mind, or is that something that you haven't seen a problem with?

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): I wouldn't say it's weighing on me, but, like, you want to be aware of all factors, and it's mostly just sort of a prepping clients, potentially, of, like.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): how editors might respond. But overall, like, you're still doing the same work. You're still trying to find that editor that believes in you, and that loves your work.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): And you might have to change

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): house. Like, I feel like that's the… the thing that might happen, is if the house that sold your… or bought your first book might not be…

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): super excited about your next book if your track doesn't make them happy, which is silly, because why do we put so much pressure on first books and debuts, and people need to build a career and get better, and if it's… if it's selling to any children, then isn't that great?

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): But I… I think it's just a strategy thing of continuing to think about who is the best fit for this, if we need to switch houses, types of editors, try something new, try a smaller house, try a bigger house, like…

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Do I need to make a personal connection to try and get that person in the door a little… with a little more enthusiasm right off the bat?

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): But yeah, like, we can't… we can't control that. So much of that is random, like, even if all the marketing in the world is behind it, sometimes a book just doesn't sell, and then things, you know, go crazy that had no marketing, and why does that happen? So I… I think we all just need to focus on the fundamentals of

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Write good books, write good pitch letters, sell to good editors, hopefully keep rolling.

Beth McMullen: That's the million dollar question, right? If we knew what made this book take off and this book not, boy, we could all retire, because we'd have the magic formula. That would be valuable. So, I,

Beth McMullen: I was thinking about, and I can't remember what this was in relation to, and I was looking on Query Tracker, and they have, on Query Tracker, which is, for those who don't know, it's a…

Beth McMullen: a resource that you can access to query agents. It's kind of a clearinghouse, which is great for people who are in the querying trenches, kind of keeps you organized, but oftentimes they will list with the agent

Beth McMullen: how many manuscripts they ask to see, and it's always a tiny little…

Beth McMullen: less than % number, right? It's very little. So…

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Yeah.

Beth McMullen: that query letter that you're writing as the querying author is so important, because that's what's going to get the initial attention from the agent on the other side. So, in your experience, what are some…

Beth McMullen: tips, kind of the top tips that you would suggest for making that query letter stand out? What makes it strong?

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): I think stakes is the number one thing, having clear and specific stakes. People often talk about, you know, making sure it's there, making sure your stakes are listed, but, like, what… what are your stakes, and how are you writing them, and are they specific enough? I see a lot of, like.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): they need to do this thing, or the world will end. And, like, that sounds like the most important, biggest stake in the whole world, but for some reason, we're all like, like, we, you know, when reading that, we don't connect with that immediately. So making the stakes specific, what does the main character stand to lose specifically if they don't succeed? Not just what happens to

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): this whole community, to the state, to whatever size the repercussions are, but what is going to happen to our main character, and why do we care to make sure that that doesn't happen, and want to follow along and make sure that that doesn't happen? So I think specificity of stakes is really key.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): And then I also really like to see voice of the story in the query itself.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): I think pitches can start to feel kind of…

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): clinical or, like, scientific, because everyone's really focused on getting all the information across concisely and neatly, and, like, doing a really lovely job of crafting this short, perfect pitch.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): But sometimes that starts to lose the personality of the story, and I am reading a query to get, like, a little mini feel for what the story will have in store for me.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): So you don't have to, like, pull particular lines of dialogue, or, like, things like that, and…

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): honestly, please don't write it from first-person point of view from your main character, that's too far, too much voice. But getting, like, the feel, getting the humor, if it's a funny story, or if it's scary, giving us some of that suspense, like, in the query itself.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Get that personality across in the query, so that the agent already feels like they're connecting with

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): The whole package, and not just with the, like, concepts, the, like, beats that you're hitting through the query.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): And then of course, as everyone says, please just follow the guidelines. It's the easiest way for someone to just auto-reject something, as if they've

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): put clear guidelines somewhere, and you don't match those, then they just, like… it's a way to get through thousands and thousands of queries faster, it's just to be like, well, this person didn't pay enough attention, didn't do their research, delete.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): A lot of people will give you, you know, the benefit of the doubt when you do something a little bit wrong, but if, obviously, if you're sending, like, the wrong genre to someone, that's a problem. But just try your best to follow the guidelines so you don't give an agent an easy way to just hit reject.

Beth McMullen: The low-hanging fruit, right?

Beth McMullen: Gotta do your homework. We say that… I think we say that every episode. Probably I should just tattoo it on my forehead. It's not a video podcast! That doesn't help. Seriously, it might have to be a video podcast for this reason! Please, everybody, read the directions and follow them. It'll all be okay.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Yes, please.

Lisa Schmid: I feel like you've already given us a really good example of a mistake, but is there anything else, like, at the top of your head that you've seen that somebody's written or done in a query that you've just gone, no, no, or it just… or you've heard when you're at one of your conferences with a bunch of other agents?

Beth McMullen: stealing from the first person thing. People do that? You've actually had where they pretend they're the character.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Oh my god.

Beth McMullen: I don't know.

Beth McMullen: Get over this.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): It's usually a picture book thing.

Beth McMullen: K.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): And it's usually, you very quickly can tell that this person is not super experienced, and they just… they just haven't been doing this for very long, or haven't done a lot of research, and like, their next one might be great, like, that doesn't rule you out, people out there who accidentally did that, like, it'll be okay on the next one, but please, please write it as yourself.

Lisa Schmid: Oh my god. Anything else? Any other stories you heard? Any, like, things that you… that you've just gone, oh my gosh, I can't believe somebody did that, or just, like, a common mistake, that jumps to mind?

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): There's nothing, like, Exciting and inflammatory that, like.

Lisa Schmid: There we go!

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): No, like, and I don't mean to, like, not… it's just fun to gossip about goofy

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): people do sometimes. And like, you know, people write the wrong names, or whatever, like.

Lisa Schmid: Yeah.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): We know it's all copy and pasting, we're all doing our best, like you're sending.

Lisa Schmid: Yeah.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): of these things, like, you're gonna make mistakes, it's okay, just try your best to get the information correct. But in my personal inbox, a silly thing that does not affect my review of the query at all, but that has come up many times over the past, I don't know,  months or so, is people

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): in that, like, personalizing of it in the first couple sentences, people have been telling me, like, I saw that you want, and then quote.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): books that will bring joy to all the world, end quote, or something like that, as if, like, they took it from an interview with me, and I'm like, I have never said that. Like, they will quote things that I assume are from other agents' interviews, and get copy and pasted, and then ends up in mine.

Lisa Schmid: Oh my god.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): got to change it or something. And they're not always, like, ridiculous things. They're, like, very specific.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): And I'm like, or they're like, you want, kids…

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): running through scary houses, and I'm like, nope, I never said that. I don't know, just, like, random stuff that ends up in my query email, and I'm like, oh, well, that's not meant for me, but okay, I'm gonna keep reading. That's not an auto-reject, but it is a little bit of a bummer.

Lisa Schmid: It's so funny, because we actually had, a podcast or an interview just that's airing… is it AirJet? I don't know. Anyway, it'll vary by the time this airs, where we talk about queries, and one of the things I mentioned is, you know, it's always nice to personalize it with, like, if they've… you've seen something that they've posted.

Lisa Schmid: That, you know, they wanted something specific, but you're right, don't, you know, don't copy and paste the whole thing over.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Yes. And, like.

Beth McMullen: Well, and I…

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): copy and repaste, like, my pitch letters to editors, and then I change them. Like, we're all doing it.

Lisa Schmid: Yeah.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): You gotta read it  times, because your eyes just glaze over stuff that you've written.

Beth McMullen: There's also the… the added layer now, that if you…

Beth McMullen: say they put your name into ChatGPT, and ChatGPT will hallucinate back some stuff and say, of course, Erin is perfect for your book as you describe it, because she said X, Y, and Z, where you never said that, and you never were even in the place where they're saying you were saying that, and…

Beth McMullen: So you have to be really careful about figuring out what's true and what's not before you build a query letter around it.

Beth McMullen: Unless you're % positive, I would… I would avoid that sort of stuff, because you run into all these problems, where now you've noticed that about this person who sent this letter, and yes, you kindly say you will continue reading, but…

Beth McMullen: It also kind of… that puts you back on your heels as the person who's submitting.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Yeah. Yeah, if you're using the, like, auto-generated AI reply on Google that's the first thing that pops up, please stop doing that, and…

Lisa Schmid: I didn't even go ahead and click.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): on some websites.

Beth McMullen: I can't believe we have to say this, but we're saying it. Please don't do that!

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Come on, dude.

Lisa Schmid: I just never even thought about people using ChatGPT for…

Lisa Schmid: the… the querying process. That's a whole new… keep all of wax that we've, like, just come up against.

Beth McMullen: It really is. And I actually, I've been thinking about it because we get, for this show, we get lots of submissions from PR agencies pitching their clients to come on the show.

Beth McMullen: And I would say a full % of them are AI-generated and sent to masses of podcasts, and they're totally inappropriate and wrong.

Beth McMullen: And nothing… I am not kind like you, I just hit delete. Like, I'm not even gonna answer.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Different.

Beth McMullen: Goodbye! Goodbye now, thanks for…

Lisa Schmid: Thanks!

Beth McMullen: John, thanks for, I guess, nothing, but…

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Yeah.

Beth McMullen: Yeah, I mean, I get AI-generated emails very regularly to my inbox from all sorts of people, like.

Lisa Schmid: Yeah.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): classic spam to, like, publishers that don't exist that want to work with my clients. Like, all sorts of stuff that you have to be aware of.

Beth McMullen: There's so many scams, it's exhausting.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): It is! Gosh.

Beth McMullen: Alright, let's talk about something more fun. So when… when you… alright, you've cleared the query letter hurdle, this person's done a great job, and they have a manuscript that you're going to read.

Beth McMullen: How do you evaluate that manuscript? What's front of mind for you when you're reading something for the first time?

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): So there's actually, like, steps, I feel like, where you, like, clear hurdles in my evaluation, that there's, like, lower hurdles, and then we get to more difficult stuff of, like, true craft. But, like, is the writing polished? Is it smooth? Is it…

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): edited, is it? Like, are there a bunch of typos? Like, we can forgive some typos, but if we're going through the first three sentences and we got a bunch of typos, this has not been read multiple times. Certainly not by a beta reader, like…

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): just, is it… is it… is the writing at a very simple level, like, clear and polished and smooth? Because if it's not, I'm not gonna spend a lot of time with it. This person needs more experience and needs to work on that more.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): If we get past that, then it's voice. Is the voice interesting? Is it something that I want to read for hours and hours? And this can, like…

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): hopefully the… is the writing polished as fairly objective, and then with step two, we've already gotten into something kind of subjective. We're like.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): you can sort of tell when there is a strong, well-crafted voice, and a voice that hasn't… they haven't really figured out and isn't consistent. But other than that, like, voice is very subjective, so is it something that

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): I connect with, I find fun, I want to hear this person's voice in my head for a long time, or at least for the next  pages, so I keep reading the query.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): So then, we clear that, then is it, am I actually connecting with this character? You know, we start to get into what are their motivations? Am I empathizing with their feelings? What are their goals? Do I want to see what's going to happen to them next? Are they making me interested in them as a person who, again, I hopefully want to spend

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Lots and lots of time with, which is the initial reading of the book, and then if this becomes my client, like.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Probably multiple revisions, unless you are really, really good at this. And then plot…

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): and pacing, like, are… is the plot pulling me forward? Am I interested in the actual

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): story itself, and not just this really cool character who I want to spend time with and be best friends with, or who's unlikable, quote-unquote, but, like, has such interesting motivations, and I want to see how their story plays out. Now we've moved on to, like, is the plot cool? Like, do I want to read these chapters? Am I interested in the fall and the rising action and all of that sort of stuff?

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): And then it's really just, like, can that keep me reading? So if that all was, like, yes, yes, yes, I've requested more pages. But then does it hold together? So as I… I go,  pages is my query, then I ask for usually a -page partial.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Because that's usually the sort of stretch where things might start to fall apart if they're going to fall apart, and I try not to over-commit myself to reading a full, because I'm very bad at stopping myself from continuing to read if I'm on the fence, and I just need some sort of outside

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): decision-making tactic, so I get those  pages, and then if the  pages are still holding up and we're still doing well, then I ask for the full manuscript. Obviously, if we're talking

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): novels and not picture books. I probably have the whole picture book right from the get-go. So then it's just… was… was those first  pages polished and lovely and worked and worked and worked and fabulous, because that's what you're gonna query, and then things start to fall apart at page

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): , or , or , and if I'm no longer interested, if it's not pulling me in anymore, if it lost that

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): that movement, that excitement, all that… all that stuff that was motivating me forward, then it eventually becomes a pass. Or maybe I know what happened, I can see where the problem was, and I have a vision for fixing it.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): And then I might make it all the way through, and then we can talk about that later if I ended up loving it, but we just need to make some changes.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): that all gets way more complicated and more craft-focused. So, there's all these, like, stages that my brain goes through pretty unconsciously at this point to decide if this is something I want to spend more time with.

Beth McMullen: It's a good way to think, too, for the authors, right? These are the hurdles that you're going to try and clear, so keep them in mind before you start sending your stuff out, because if you feel like you're going to fall apart at any of these stages, you're doing yourself a disservice by pushing the book out.

Beth McMullen: too early, you're not done. I was thinking, as you were talking, I was thinking about this author that Lisa and I met years ago who

Beth McMullen: had been working on her first chapter, I don't know, for years.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Like, just…

Beth McMullen: Over and over and over again, and never advancing to the rest of the book, and while that first chapter is really critical, because for all the reasons you just said, if you can't back it up with the rest of the book, you're not going anywhere anyway. So, I mean.

Beth McMullen: messy middle. You gotta do the messy middle, even if it's not that fun.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Yeah, yeah, it can be so hard, and just that, like, that block of knowing that it's there, and you gotta work through all of the hard bits, and we can't just do the fun beginning and the, like.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): fun, hopeful climax of all the stuff, how it wraps up, is really tricky, but it's, as you said, it's a disservice, because, like, maybe you just want to have one person request more, like, maybe that's your only goal, and so you've made your query gorgeous, and you get that request, and then that person's gonna be like.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): What happened?

Beth McMullen: Right.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): So…

Beth McMullen: Right.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): try, try your best to make it all beautiful and polished all the way through, even though it is so, so, so much work, but…

Beth McMullen: Authors work so hard. They work for years on this, this manuscript, and…

Beth McMullen: Then they shoot themselves in the foot at the very end, because they just don't quite get it to the finish line, because they're just… they've had enough, they just want to put it out there, they want to get it going, they're so sick of it, which I completely understand on every level. I literally hate all of my books by the time they leave my desk, because I just am so sick of them!

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Together.

Beth McMullen: for too long. But, like, to make sure you've got this as perfect as you can get it, knowing that nothing is perfect, but as perfect as you can get it before you enter this process, you just give yourself a leg up.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Yeah, and, like, you gotta know that if you're in that headspace, and you're, like, rushing to send it, and hoping that it can just be gone, it can just be over.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): is probably not right. The timing is probably not right. So that is probably more of a sign of, like, put it in a drawer for  months, it's okay, and then come back to it and see if you have a little bit of fresh eyes, and you don't hate it quite so much, and you.

Beth McMullen: Exactly.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): why you wrote it and what you love about it, and then you can nail those plot beats and nail that ending, or whatever you're struggling with. And don't just send it out because you hate it. Like, that's not a great headspace to.

Beth McMullen: No, you need to… you need to be calm and focused. And I…

Beth McMullen: This also talks to this question that comes up sometimes,

Beth McMullen: with my book coaching clients. Well, so… this'll be better when the agent requests all the pages, because then it will make more sense.

Beth McMullen: Okay, please don't, please don't go in there like that, because you're never gonna get to that point. Anyway, I think we could do a whole episode on this, right?

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Well, we're gonna have to do a whole season. Just the three of us. We'll nail it all down.

Beth McMullen: Sorry, you're now, you're now part of the staff of Writers with Wrinkle, so welcome.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): I'm not gonna field those emails from the AI people.

Beth McMullen: You're also, like, you're good for balancing our, like, age, right? Because, you know, Lisa and I are definitely in the wrinkled part of the…

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): It's just because we smile so much. You get smile wrinkles, it's wonderful.

Lisa Schmid: We're bringing the youth. We're bringing in… Young Run.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): I'm glad I'm still the youth, you know?

Beth McMullen: You totally are. You totally are.

Lisa Schmid: You look hip. You look way more hip than we do.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): I like this part of the podcast, this is fun.

Lisa Schmid: Yeah! This is what we do. We build people.

Beth McMullen: Oh my gosh.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Tell all my prospective clients how hip and cool I am.

Lisa Schmid: You're gonna be like, what? What?

Beth McMullen: You're gonna get, you know, if you are ever open for submissions again, you're gonna get bombarded with people who are like, we want the hip agent.

Lisa Schmid: So, on that, like, happy note, are you ever open for queries? Because we see that you're… are you hiding?

Lisa Schmid: Oh my god!

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Just a little hiding.

Lisa Schmid: Okay, I'm not gonna take that as a good sign. You, like, I'm surprised you didn't pull your hoodie up over your face. Yeah, just… just crawl under your desk.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Not a video media. So, I'm gonna take it you are never open for queries, is that… That's not true! Hooray! Hooray!

Lisa Schmid: That's so good.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): But, like.

Lisa Schmid: Never open.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Yeah, it's… it's super rare. I'm so sorry, everyone out there who keeps checking in. So the agency hopes, we have grand hopes that we will be open the first week of every month.

Lisa Schmid: But…

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): we make those decisions individually, and just when you gotta stay closed, you gotta stay closed. And I'm a really slow reader. This is definitely a problem that I didn't think about when I took this line of work. But it takes me…

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): longer than I think, maybe on average for agents to just read the materials that I receive, so I try not to compare myself to others anymore, because it's just not a good idea, as none of us should.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): But when I open, I'm very excited that I get so many queries, but it builds into the thousands very, very quickly.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): And it takes me a long time to sort through all of those, especially because… I'm sorry, queriers, but, like, you're at the bottom of the to-do list pile, because it is the thing that I am

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): most not getting paid for. There's a lot of things that I don't get paid for, and we hope one day… one day it will become a thing that I get paid for. But query years is definitely the thing that I have to actively make time for in the little snippets that I have.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): So… One day, I will open again. I have learned my lesson to not

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): say a day or a time until I am absolutely positive, because then I just feel terrible when I don't actually hit that deadline.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): But, I am currently reading a whole bunch of full manuscripts that I requested and I'm gonna take with me over the holidays, and there are a couple other, like, picture book

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): submissions and things that I need to read and respond to, but the number is very low, so I'm gonna broadly say early .

Beth McMullen: Okay, that's good, though, because then people can kind of make a note to themselves to check in, but knowing that it could be either way. You might not be able to open

Beth McMullen: Maybe you will, but that way they can just kind of keep tabs on you without kind of losing track, which I think is good. I mean, I feel like that… that kind of honesty is what

Beth McMullen: These authors in the trenches need, so they can just kind of build it into their workflow.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Yeah.

Lisa Schmid: So, if there is… in that window, and this may help, like, some of our listeners narrow down, because if… you'll get bombarded, like, if people are like, oh my god, I love that gal, she was amazing, she was so cool, she wore a hoodie, and she was funny.

Lisa Schmid: Like, we want to query her! So anyway, so they query, they want to query you, but, like, give us a narrowed down, like, what do you, like, really want more than anything else to land in your inbox? Like, more than anything else.

Lisa Schmid: Because the… keep in mind, people, like, she's getting a bunch of these, so, like, pay attention right now, like, what… what would make you go, oh my god, it's here, it's arrived!

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): I… I hope I'll have that reaction once I read the pages, reserving the right, but the thing that I am waiting for, and I have

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): asked for, for probably the last, like, two years in a variety of forms, is I really want a middle grade or a YA survival story. Like, I want someone in the woods

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): figuring out how to make a fire, and there's a bear, and, like, I want all of those tropey bits, but I want it to be…

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): fresh and modern. I would love if it starred a person of color or a queer protagonist, because I think the intersectionality of those identities and nature and what survival looks like and what experience you might have with survival is very different depending on your own identities and experiences. So I… I so badly want

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): that really interesting story where you're constantly on the edge, wondering if they're going to survive, and if their plans are gonna work out in middle grade and in YA.

Lisa Schmid: See, now that's a hot tip. I can tell you if they were from California, they wouldn't make it, because we're…

Lisa Schmid: We… we lose also.

Beth McMullen: We don't do weather.

Lisa Schmid: dog?

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Oh no!

Lisa Schmid: Like, let's just hope the character isn't from California, because they'd just be wandering around going, I'm lost, there's fog.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Like, how do they figure it out, you know? Like, I don't… I don't only want the preppers and the people who are, like, super ready, like…

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): plane crash, whatever the thing is… That's it. Yeah.

Beth McMullen: Minecraft.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Or I read, Small Game by Blair Braverman, which is an adult novel, but it's about a survival reality show that goes wrong.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): And, like, that was such a cool way into that idea that felt very fresh and different, and I really enjoyed that. So, like, something new and interesting, but set in, like, the woods or something, wherever in nature where you need to survive.

Beth McMullen: I have a book coaching client who I've worked with who has a middle grade survivalist story, but it's…

Beth McMullen: on the water.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): That's cool! And it's like…

Beth McMullen: It's actually scary to me, because I've had terrible boating experiences in my past, so when I read it, I was literally on the edge of my seat, like, stressed out. Yeah. So I will… I'll give her a heads up.

Beth McMullen: We'll keep an eye on you, so that way you're.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Please. Yeah, I also, I love sharks, and I love whales,

Beth McMullen: Okay, you got… I think you actually need to read this, because there's stuff in there with sharks that…

Lisa Schmid: Oh my gosh.

Beth McMullen: I was traumatized by Jaws at a very young age, so I, you know, that stuff stays with me.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Yeah, it's so scary, oh my god, I love it. I don't like scary things, but for some reason, like, Jurassic Park and Jaws are my, like, scary things that I love.

Beth McMullen: Yes, and I go back to them, even though I know I'm gonna be scared.

Lisa Schmid: It's… it's so funny, because years ago, when I was young and foolish, I was in Hawaii, and I met this really cute boy, and he's like, let's go swimming. It was the middle of the night, and we had been out, like, you know, at the bars or whatever, and I'm like, okay, I'll go out, like, I'll go out swimming with you. And we swam so far out in the ocean.

Lisa Schmid: And I remember, like, really far out, like, I could see the lights, and then, I don't know, we got back.

Lisa Schmid: And every once in a while, I'll wake up in the middle of the night and pull my legs up to my chest, because all I can think about is, like, how did I not get eaten by a shark in that month? Like, it freaks me out, like, just even the memory of it.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Yeah.

Lisa Schmid: I'm terrified of the ocean.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): And so the fact that I did that is so out of character. Yeah, you were so brave!

Beth McMullen: So, Erin, thank you so much for joining us. This has actually been a really fun conversation. It's going to be a great way to kick off Season , so we're grateful for you taking the time and joining us today.

Erin Casey Westin (she/her): Yeah, so happy to be here. It was great to actually see your faces and not just hear your voices. It's wonderful, thank you!

Beth McMullen: And listeners, remember, you can find out more about Erin by visiting our podcast notes and the blog at writerswithwrinkles.net. We will be back next time with an Ask Beth and Lisa episode, so if you have questions, please send them our way for that one. Also, we have some new first pages coming out this month, so be on the lookout for those as well.

Beth McMullen: And until then, happy reading, writing, and listening!