You’re Not a Real Author Until You Get Scam Emails

Is your inbox is bursting with slop from bots and scammers? In this "Ask Beth & Lisa" episode, we tackle the explosion of predatory emails—from fake "Silent Book Clubs" to fraudulent Amazon publishing offers—aimed at unsuspecting writers. We discuss why these emails are a weird sign of visibility, how we use the "48-hour rule" to vet opportunities, and why staying connected to the writing community is your best defense. We also go behind the scenes of our high-octane Threads Kidlit Chat and share a sneak peek into why secondary characters often steal the spotlight from your protagonist.

• [00:09:12] Welcome to Season 5: We introduce today's "Ask Beth & Lisa" session and dive straight into why we’re currently losing our faith in humanity.
• [00:10:45] The Threads "Stock Exchange": We recap the chaotic, high-energy success of our first monthly Threads Kidlit Chat and why it felt like being on a trading floor.
• [00:14:48] Secondary Character Magic: We preview our next big craft topic—developing secondary characters that have their own "secret goals" and distinct voices.
• [00:19:20] Spotting the Scams: We break down the specific red flags of current publishing scams and why we view getting these emails as a "badge of honor."
• [00:26:30] The 48-Hour Rule: Our practical advice for authors on how to pause, research, and avoid the high-pressure sales tactics of predatory services.
• [00:30:05] The Writers with Wrinkles Awards: We announce our upcoming year-end awards and how you can get involved.
• [00:33:38] Reflecting on Advice: We look back at our interview with agent Alia Hanna Habib and the importance of a professional author-agent partnership.

Beth McMullen and Lisa Schmid are authors and co-hosts of the Writers with Wrinkles podcast. With years of experience in the kidlit world and the broader publishing industry, they created this show to pull back the curtain on the writing life—wrinkles and all. When they aren't recording, you can find them hosting live community chats on Threads or mentoring writers in their private Facebook group.

Resources Mentioned in this Episode

• Writer Beware: The industry watchdog we recommend for checking any suspicious "offers."
• Facebook Group: The Waiting Room (Our private community for writer support).
• Threads Kidlit Chat: Join us the first Wednesday of every month at 6:00 PM PST.
• Website: Writers with Wrinkles Official Site

Transcript

Ask B&L S5 E3 Transcript

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Beth McMullen: Hi friends, I'm Beth McMullen.

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Lisa Schmid: And I'm Lisa Schmidt!

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Beth McMullen: And we're the co-hosts of Writers with Wrinkles. This is Season 5, Episode 3, and this is an Ask Beth and Lisa episode, and today we're talking about scams. So many scams targeting writers and authors. It's actually… oh my gosh, we'll get into this in a second, but it's making me lose my faith in humanity.

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Lisa Schmid: Just that?

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Lisa Schmid: You're born!

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Beth McMullen: That's fair.

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Lisa Schmid: low.

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Beth McMullen: I know, well, yeah, I actually have sort of lost my faith in humanity already, but this is kind of the final nail in the coffin.

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Lisa Schmid: Yeah.

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Beth McMullen: It's bad out there, friends. Protect yourselves.

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Lisa Schmid: Well, you see, it's all, you know, people are talking about it on social media, and it's almost like a rite of passage at this point. Like, if you don't get a scam email, it's like, what's wrong with me? Like, why am I not getting one?

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Beth McMullen: That is totally true. It's like a, it's like a badge of honor. Are you a real writer if somebody hasn't tried to scam you? I don't know. I don't know, you might be.

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Lisa Schmid: You even exist if you have not received a scam email.

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Beth McMullen: Okay, we're gonna get into this in a second, but we wanted to talk for a quick minute about

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Beth McMullen: the threads chats that we've been hosting. We did one so far. It was actually super fun, even though I felt like my head was gonna explode.

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Lisa Schmid: behind the scenes of what was going on at Writers with Wrinkles, Kidlit Chat number one, so…

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Lisa Schmid: We've never known this before!

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Lisa Schmid: And so I was the one posting the questions, and Beth and I were on the phone at the same time. We were, you know, talking while this was going on, and

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Lisa Schmid: Beth was answering, coming in and answering the questions, kind of, as quickly as possible, and engaging with people that were participating, because I couldn't. I was just, like, watching the timer, like, every 6 minutes, I was posting a question, and as it would get closer, all of a sudden, I'd be like.

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Lisa Schmid: Damn, it's out!

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Lisa Schmid: So she was like, poor Beth, would have to, like, scramble and try to answer questions, and was like, you know what it reminds me of? The stock exchange. You know when everyone's on the floor, like, screaming and yelling? That was us, except for it was just the two of us, and I'm sure it wasn't as chaotic.

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Beth McMullen: Well, I felt like I couldn't…

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Beth McMullen: It was really a sort of glaring illustration of my inability to multitask at the moment, because I had you on the phone, and you'd be talking, and I couldn't talk to you and keep up with the chats and the posts at the same time. So I kept starting sentences, and I'd stop, and then I'd be, like, madly typing and trying to connect with everybody, because there were all these fun new people that I didn't know, and I wanted to, like.

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Beth McMullen: what everyone was up to, and…

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Beth McMullen: It was so funny. At the end of it, I felt like I'd been run over by a bus.

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Lisa Schmid: It was… it's… it was really fun, and we're going to be doing this every month. We're doing it the first Wednesday of every month. So last month it was on a Tuesday, but we found out after the fact that there is a kid-lit chat that goes on over at Blue Sky, I think every Tuesday at 6 o'clock. So if you want Kidlit chats, go to that one, too.

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Lisa Schmid: But I, I felt so bad, I was just like, oh my god, I'm, like, moving in on your car.

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Beth McMullen: on, and I don't remember who it was, who told me they were doing both at the same time. Christine. Was it Christine? Okay, and I was…

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Beth McMullen: I was super impressed, because there is no way I could have ever done that. I could barely do the one. Doing both at once. She did say that she, too, felt like her head was gonna explode, so…

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Beth McMullen: I get that, but we're… we moved it to Wednesday, so we don't overlap. We want to have, you know, we want to have more rather than less of all this.

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Lisa Schmid: Well, you feel… it's like you're a little neurotic, because you're just… everything's moving at such a fast pace, and I didn't want to… like, I would try to go in and answer them as riders with wrinkles, but then I was, like, trying to keep my eye on the timer, and then I was going… I was using my phone to do it, and then I was just… anyway, it's a lot.

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Lisa Schmid: And I just was… I can't imagine, like, how somebody does it on their own. Like, somebody, like, just one person, because we needed both of us. Maybe it's because we're old, and we're like…

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Beth McMullen: Oh, definitely. Of course, it's the wrinkle.

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Beth McMullen: That's what the problem is.

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Lisa Schmid: One person had to post, and the other had to answer. But it was fun. I was so surprised, like, how many people came out.

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Beth McMullen: Great!

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Lisa Schmid: And the thing is, so just make a little note of this, that even if you miss that actual 6 to 7 o'clock time, and we do it Pacific Standard Time,

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Lisa Schmid: even if you miss that, like, I had gone on and posted, hey, the chat doesn't have to stop here, just keep talking and having… continue the conversation. People did, like, for days, would chime in and say, hey, I'm so-and-so, and other people were chiming in. So, if you don't fret, if you miss that… that hour, go back, because people are still talking, and when you respond to somebody, they're gonna see it, even if it's 3 days later.

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Lisa Schmid: And respond back to you. So use that opportunity. It was so much fun.

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Lisa Schmid: And, yeah, we're… we're gonna do it, and Beth's hair will get slowly grayer. It's hard to get grayer.

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Beth McMullen: I mean, you know, my hair's pretty gray right now, but there's always room for… there's always room for a few more grays on the top of my head.

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Lisa Schmid: And I've made… So, the next…

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Beth McMullen: The next topic?

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Lisa Schmid: Well, before you say that, I've made the determination that we cannot have, like, a glass of wine or any alcohol in our hand, because it'll dull our reactions.

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Beth McMullen: Yeah, and actually, I can't afford to have my reactions dulled anymore.

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Lisa Schmid: Too bad!

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Beth McMullen: What I need is an espresso right before the thing. That's what I'm gonna do from now on. I'm gonna have a little shot of espresso, and then I will be hyperactive, because I'm very sensitive to caffeine. It'll keep me awake for days. But in that case, I think it will be worth it.

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Lisa Schmid: Your posts were very… your responses were very positive, and so here on Writers with Wrinkles, we have one of our guests we always refer to as Positive Penny. That's Jennifer March Soloway, because she is, like, the most positive person on the planet.

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Beth McMullen: Coming back!

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Lisa Schmid: And she's coming back. But we… we always refer to her as Positive Penny, and I'm like, I think that… that Jennifer has been dethroned by all your positive output.

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Beth McMullen: I love her. I love people who just, like, radiate good vibes. It's the best thing. I was trying to live up to her, kind of, you know, her high bar, so… Yeah. Anyway, so our next topic, just to kind of put this in your head, is…

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Beth McMullen: Your supporting cast, your secondary characters, either the ones you love as a reader, or the ones you're wrestling with as a writer.

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Beth McMullen: 10-question deep dive into those very special secondary characters. And I'm excited to ask the question, because this has happened to me, has your secondary character ever just taken over your novel and become the.

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Lisa Schmid: Lee!

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Beth McMullen: has become the most important character, and then you're thinking, huh, something went sideways in this book. Oh well.

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Lisa Schmid: It's interesting that you say that, because, okay, for… I'm gonna give two examples of this. So, in one of your books, Secret of the Storm, Joe is my favorite sidekick of all time. I love him, but I was reading…

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Beth McMullen: Best, I love it.

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Lisa Schmid: He's the best.

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Lisa Schmid: And I was texting you the whole time reading it, going, I am Team Joe, I love Joe so much, and I kind of.

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Lisa Schmid: I can't… I liked your first character, your, you know, the main character, but it was Joe who stole the show.

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Lisa Schmid: And when I… when people… whenever people, like, message me or talk to me about Ollie Oxley and the Ghost, Teddy stole the show. People had always been, you know, be like, oh, I wish you had told it from Teddy's, point of view, because he's so funny, and it's like, you know, Ollie was, like, this angry main character, where Teddy was, like, the fun guy that was, like.

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Lisa Schmid: Everybody's favorite.

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Beth McMullen: But I think it's easier, though. I think it's easier to be a secondary character, because you don't have the heavy lifting of the main character, so you kind of get away with being the fun one, or the quirky one, or the… you're a little bit less multidimensional than the main character by design.

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Beth McMullen: And so you can kind of lean into those things, as opposed to realizing that you have to be…

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Beth McMullen: A little bit more well-rounded to carry the whole…

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Beth McMullen: book. So, I mean, they do start… their starting line is a little bit ahead of the main character, so, you know, I love them, but I feel like they get a little bit of advantage.

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Lisa Schmid: You know what there should be? I think there should be… maybe we can re… we can create this award. An award for, best secondary character of all time. Or, like, just every year, like, who's the best secondary character? And we can start an award for it.

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Beth McMullen: Get some nominations. We can totally do that. You know what? We can do anything we want.

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Lisa Schmid: fun! Oh my god, you're right! Let's do that! Okay, so this is… we always go off on these tangents where we think of something, but I kind of am digging that, and I gotta think of what we can, you know, what the prize can be, other than congratulations.

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Beth McMullen: We could have the Writers with Wrinkles Awards at the end of the year and pick out a couple of different things, right? We could do the secondary character, we could do Best Novel, we could do whatever we want. It could be fun.

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Lisa Schmid: You know what we could do? We could have, like, a little thing, little categories, and then we'll name them, and then we can do, like, little speed interviews, or, like, little speed things with them.

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Beth McMullen: Oh, right, like, yeah, like the, you know, the couple of questions that are… that everybody gets the same questions.

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Lisa Schmid: Fight?

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Beth McMullen: Alright, make a note, because, you know, there's a really good chance that we forget everything that we just talked about by the end of the episode.

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Lisa Schmid: I know.

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Beth McMullen: Well, we'll have the transcript, so we already have notes.

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Beth McMullen: Look at my.

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Lisa Schmid: I'm already digging that, though.

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Beth McMullen: Okay, let's talk about…

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Beth McMullen: scams. The reason this came up, can I tell everybody the reason this came up, is that I got this…

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Beth McMullen: email from a silent book club…

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Beth McMullen: Saying, you know, blowing all sorts of smoke up my ass about,

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Beth McMullen: Secret of the Storm, actually, the one with Joe, and how it's the perfect book for their silent book club, and it hits all these emotional notes. Now, first of all, struck me as a little odd, right? Because it's clearly written by AI, and it…

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Beth McMullen: Was talking about a kid's book.

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Beth McMullen: for an adult book club, which… I know that lots of adults read middle grade and YA, but…

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Beth McMullen: this is a strange choice. So right off the bat, I'm like, huh, I wonder what this is all about. So…

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Beth McMullen: It goes on to talk about how they feature the book, and it gets a lot of promo, and…

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Beth McMullen: You know, you can participate at whatever level you want, like, send a note, or come, you know, via Zoom or whatever, the day of, blah blah blah.

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Beth McMullen: So, I don't…

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Beth McMullen: I… I didn't… I can't remember what I sent back, because I was kind of curious, because what I did was I looked up the name of the organizer, and it was the name of a very well-known woman who does a silent book club in Rhode Island, and has been featured in, you know, newspapers and whatever.

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Beth McMullen: And it was her name, but it wasn't Rhode Island, it was Seattle. So it means, you know, they're trying to get you to look over these little inconsistencies.

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Beth McMullen: So, I wrote back, and I said.

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Beth McMullen: This is very interesting, are you aware that this is a kid's book?

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Beth McMullen: I just kind of wanted to see what would happen.

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Beth McMullen: So then they… she's… whoever it is, you know, the bot writes back and says, well, yes, we know it's a kid's book, we're still… we think it's amazing.

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Beth McMullen: And all it would take is $70 for you to pay for, you know, drinks and snacks and stuff.

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Beth McMullen: And I said, of course, I never pay for any of this sort of stuff. I never pay for promotion unless I'm doing actual direct advertising.

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Beth McMullen: But then, because I was like, alright, now I said to them, not doing this, what are they going to do next? And they just kept…

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Beth McMullen: coming. Now, it didn't get more aggressive, it just was sort of, like…

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Beth McMullen: trying to chip away and convince you that this was actually a great opportunity. And then I started getting

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Beth McMullen: the same email from probably 2 or 3 different silent book clubs from all over the place. The same exact text, the same book, but, like.

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Beth McMullen: Pittsburgh, and Chicago, and… So, I mean, it's…

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Beth McMullen: It's fascinating, right? It is fascinating, because it… it… all of these scams just play on the desperation, that dream factor that authors have. Like, somebody chose me.

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Lisa Schmid: Yeah, right! They, they too, they rely on, your desperation, and your…

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Lisa Schmid: you do, we crave that, oh my god, somebody chose me to do this, out of all the books in the world. And I had got… I had received one of those emails, and I… I, you know, I'd heard enough about it so that I think I had emailed them back, because I kind of did the same thing. I said, I'm very interested, you know, I'd love to do that, sure, just, you know, I'd be… oh, this is what I said, I'd be happy to zoom in and answer questions if you want.

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Lisa Schmid: If you want, I'd be happy to do that.

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Lisa Schmid: And then they came back with the money grab, and then I emailed them back, and I said, no, thank you. And then within minutes.

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Lisa Schmid: the same email came out, but with different, like, a different author, to me, and like, to… like, but with a different author's name, and… but they sent it to me, and so I just replied back, LOL.

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Beth McMullen: You have to get better at your scamming. You guys are really, like, you're not doing a good job with the scamming. I also think that, you know, some of these,

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Beth McMullen: some of these scams, and I actually did a little search, because I was really curious about what…

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Beth McMullen: The big ones are, right now in 2026, and…

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Beth McMullen: and I've seen most of these at this point myself. The Amazon, impersonators, where it's, like, the Amazon Publishing Pro, or Prime Publisher Incorporated, or Amazon Book Publishing Professionals.

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Beth McMullen: And they offer you all sorts of services that, of course, don't exist, they're just taking your money. They're all the fake law firms where

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Beth McMullen: They're saying that… and I think with this Anthropic case, it sort of ballooned about law firms saying, hey, we'll help you win money for these AI claims, but they're just phishing, right?

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Beth McMullen: Oh, this is my other favorite one, the Hollywood stuff.

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Beth McMullen: People…

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Beth McMullen: the scouts or the producers who say, oh, I just need a little bit of money to get you, you know, seen by the right people. And if anyone's asking you for money, it is a scam.

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Lisa Schmid: Yeah.

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Beth McMullen: It is a scam, unless you've entered into, some sort of, like, advertising agreement with a PR person.

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Beth McMullen: or you're paying your attorney, or say that you're working with a self-publishing company, like, those things are legit. It's just the… this other stuff, where they're asking you for money to do these sorts of exposure things. It's almost always 100%.

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Beth McMullen: BS!

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Lisa Schmid: So, it's… it's one of those things, like, if you… if somebody asks you as an author.

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Lisa Schmid: to pay money.

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Lisa Schmid: That is your red flag. You don't need any more red flags, whether it's, you know, apply to, you know, pay to be at this book festival, or pay to be here. If you… if it's pay to play, you… you are not playing. Like, just walk away as much as you want to believe it's something good that's going to help benefit your book. It is not.

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Lisa Schmid: And so, just walk away.

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Beth McMullen: I think, too, publishing is so complex as an industry, and opaque.

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Beth McMullen: It's complicated, and you don't really know what's going on.

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Beth McMullen: if you're new to it, or you've, you know, not had, like, a lot of different experiences within the industry. So, you might not understand that

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Beth McMullen: this is garbage. You might think, oh, this is just how it's done. Like, these people are very convincingly telling me that I need to give them $70 for whatever.

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Beth McMullen: Great.

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Beth McMullen: And I think some of that comes from…

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Beth McMullen: You know, most people don't know how a film option works for a book, and they don't know that, you know, there's no required fees if somebody

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Beth McMullen: is an agent trying to, you know… an agent will never ask you for money. If they ask you for money, it's a scam. But you don't know that. You have no idea.

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Beth McMullen: about that, like, an agent will take your money later, after you sell your book. That's the way it works. But…

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Beth McMullen: I think you just don't know it, because publishing is such a mysterious universe to most people, and it just makes them ripe to be taken advantage of.

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Lisa Schmid: Well, anytime that you're entering into some new industry, whatever it is, there's always, you know, you're learning as you go along, and you will make those mistakes, because we all do. We make those mistakes as we go along, and then we're like, I think I just learned something, you know, new about this fun industry.

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Beth McMullen: Yeah.

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Beth McMullen: I think you should… if you get… if you have a moment where you find yourself kind of getting drawn into this stuff.

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Beth McMullen: For sure, ask some of your writer friends. Don't do anything for, like, 48 hours, just take a big pause.

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Beth McMullen: You know, I think we have a Facebook private group…

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Beth McMullen: called The Waiting Place that has.

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Lisa Schmid: meeting room.

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Beth McMullen: waiting room. Jeez, I always get that wrong. What is wrong with me? Good lord. Anyway, that, that, that Facebook group that we have?

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Lisa Schmid: Maybe because it's, the good place, it's that.

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Beth McMullen: I know.

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Lisa Schmid: That you always think about, and didn't that turn out to… I don't want to give away spoilers, but didn't that turn out to be hell?

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Beth McMullen: No, it wasn't.

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Lisa Schmid: It wasn't? Okay, so anyway, so maybe you're just, like, we're all in hell right now.

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Beth McMullen: No, I know. I just… I love that show so much. I think it just occupies part of my brain permanently. But, like, come into the group! Join the group, put it out there, you're gonna have…

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Beth McMullen: you know, 150 plus writers say to you, no, this is garbage. You know, so it's just good to check yourself. Writing is very isolating, we do much of it alone, but that is not something that you should feel like you have to decide on your own to, you know, pay some…

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Beth McMullen: crazy company 10 grand to make you a quote-unquote cinematic trailer for your book. It's garbage. They're just… they are stealing your money, so…

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Beth McMullen: Anyway, I just… the more that I looked at everything that's happening, and how you're preying on…

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Beth McMullen: These writers who maybe have been working on these stories for years, and they're emotionally invested, and it's…

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Beth McMullen: it… there… you're feeling, at some points, a little desperate for that big break, right? That thing that's gonna launch you out of, you know, out of…

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Beth McMullen: invisibility, and… It's just… it's just so…

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Beth McMullen: infuriating, I think. Makes me mad.

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Lisa Schmid: I think also that, you know, on social media, it's… everyone's very… you know, I'm constantly, like, just right before I jumped on, somebody was talking about, you know, she's in the query trenches, and she's at the end of her rope, and she's like, I'm done, I think I'm just gonna do this or that, and I… and she just, like, I think I just might just post my book out there, or whatever, and I'm like, no, no, no, no.

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Beth McMullen: Deep breaths.

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Lisa Schmid: I'm like, you know, the query trenches, every single writer got beat up in the query trenches. It's a, you know, it's a really difficult place to be, but take a deep breath, and, you know, don't, don't do anything, you know, just, you got this, hang in there. But the thing is, it's like, everyone's talking about how difficult it is, or how difficult publishing is, or how difficult it is to get your books seen.

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Lisa Schmid: So, we are very, as a community, we are very transparent about How tough it is.

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Lisa Schmid: for our books, that we're not moving the needle. So people see that as a money grab opportunity, and that's what we all need to be looking out for each other, because it does happen. And if it is happening, you know, say something so that other people are aware of it.

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Lisa Schmid: Because it is… they… people will always take advantage of people, and that's… That's so wrong, Beth.

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Beth McMullen: It is so wrong. There is a.

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Lisa Schmid: God.

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Beth McMullen: There is a site called… hold on, I took a note about it. I think it's called Writer's Beware.

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Beth McMullen: And it…

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Lisa Schmid: Whoa!

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Beth McMullen: It has… it kind of collects

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Beth McMullen: All these scams, so you can also check that.

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Beth McMullen: And see if whoever it is that's emailing you is, already catalogued in there.

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Beth McMullen: And again, if whoever it is says they're working for, I don't know, Paramount Pictures, and they have a Gmail.com address, that's a lie! I mean, all of these things that… I think if you just educate yourself, you're not… you're not gonna get caught up in it, but you also, you know, you have to recognize that…

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Beth McMullen: Like you just said, we're so ripe for this.

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Lisa Schmid: Yeah, and I think the best place to ask those kind of questions isn't necessarily on social media. I think it's better to pose those questions in small Facebook groups with people that you know are other writers, because on social media, anybody can jump in, a bot, whatever, and give you misinformation that will, you know, send you off on a wrong path.

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Lisa Schmid: So, make sure that you're, whether it's Slack or Discord, where all the hipster young people hang out, meaning…

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Lisa Schmid: Under 50.

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Beth McMullen: I don't know.

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Lisa Schmid: I tried to figure out Slack the other day, and I'm like… So, just find a group someplace where you know you can trust the people in there, and that the answers you're gonna get are real.

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Beth McMullen: Yeah, that is very good advice, because otherwise you're just, you know, operating in a vacuum, and that's not good. It makes you ripe for… for being taken advantage of, and we don't want that to happen to you!

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Lisa Schmid: No. Okay, before we do the sign-off and all that, can we just talk about, like, our next guest? Or, no, our last guest, because she was, just on the show.

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Beth McMullen: We've actually, in the background, rearranged the episodes, because Aaliyah's book was coming out on the 20th of January, and we wanted her episode to drop around that date. Originally, it was slated for today, which is February.

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Beth McMullen: And so we are… we are…

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Beth McMullen: You've already listened to her, so hopefully you loved her, because she's amazing.

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Lisa Schmid: Oh my god, I laughed so hard. Like, the whole… the whole thing, I had my… my mic on mute because I was laughing so much.

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Beth McMullen: She made me want to write nonfiction.

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Lisa Schmid: We know!

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Lisa Schmid: I'm like, I have no desire to write nonfiction, but suddenly I'm like, what can I write?

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Beth McMullen: I wanted to. I wanted to.

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Lisa Schmid: She was really… I'm gonna say she was probably one of my favorite interviews of all time. I was laughing, and there was a moment where she was talking about how you do something, like, you know, so quickly, like, take a deep breath before you shoot out an email. There was a whole conversation about that that I totally appreciated.

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Lisa Schmid: But she gave some really good advice. There was a couple times I was like, oh my god, that's.

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Beth McMullen: I think the advice translates across whatever genre, non-fiction, fiction that you're writing in. Some of it is just good, practical, behavioral stuff that you can do to help your cause.

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Beth McMullen: But yeah, and I… I'm, like, so excited for all the books that she was talking about to come out. I actually have a list. I added them to my list, because I was like, I gotta read these.

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Beth McMullen: Yeah, that was a really fun episode. So, hopefully we didn't confuse you guys too much by rearranging stuff, but we did want that episode to hit closer to her release date, so that, you know, we could help her a little bit in her, her sales and whatnot.

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Lisa Schmid: Well, and we went off on some wild tangents. We usually… I've never seen an interview where we have just, like, I forgot we were recording, and…

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Beth McMullen: I did have to… I did have to edit out the part where we were like, what question are we asking? That was me! What question did we finish with? Where are we at in this script? I'm lost.

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Lisa Schmid: That was me! I remember just going, oh my god, I… we're supposed to ask a question, weren't we? And so I was looking at my notes and our script, I'm like, I have no idea where we're at, people. Yeah, so we are, you know.

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Beth McMullen: You know, shout out to her PR person who sent her to us and got her on our radar, because she was great.

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Lisa Schmid: Fabulous.

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Beth McMullen: Okay, now can I do the ending?

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Lisa Schmid: Yeah, she may. Continue.

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Beth McMullen: That's it for today's episode. We have another episode coming in two weeks, which will probably be us again, because we've rearranged the schedule, so… but of course, we will let you know what's in the pipeline.

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Beth McMullen: Please remember to leave a review and sign up for our newsletter at our website, writerswithrinkles.net. We really need those reviews. Please go out and give us a review, and say something nice and kind and heartwarming.

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Beth McMullen: Yeah?

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Beth McMullen: We thank you in advance for doing that.

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Beth McMullen: Alright, until next time, happy reading, writing, and listening. Bye, Lisa!

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Lisa Schmid: Hi, Beth! Bye, guys!